How Leadership and Inclusion Intertwine: Cynthia Fortladge's Journey

Discover how inclusive leadership unlocks hidden potential in the workplace.

In this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast, Toby Mildon sits down with Cynthia Fortladge, global award-winning consultant and new associate at Mildon. Cynthia shares her deeply personal journey from the C-suite to becoming a prominent voice in gender diversity and inclusive leadership.

Through candid conversation, Cynthia and Toby explore:

• The distinction between management and true leadership
• The impact of unlocking discretionary effort in employees
• Cynthia’s philosophy of “acceptance without understanding”
• The emotional journey of redefining success and identity
• Practical advice on challenging bias and fostering inclusion

Learn how Cynthia’s lived experience and business acumen help her empower leaders to cultivate inclusive workplaces that foster trust, empathy, and authenticity.

If you're enjoying this episode and looking to boost equity, inclusion, and diversity in your organisation, my team and I are here to help. Our team specialises in crafting data-driven strategies, developing inclusive leaders, designing fair recruitment processes, and enhancing disability confidence. With a blend of professional expertise and lived experience, we're ready to support you on your journey. Reach out to us through our website. 

If you want to build a more inclusive workplace that you can be proud of please visit our website to learn more.

Transcript

Speaker 1: Welcome to the Inclusive Growth show with Toby Mildon. Future proofing your business by creating a diverse workplace. 

Toby Mildon: Hey there. Thank you ever so much for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast. I'm Toby Mildon and this is a slightly different podcast than normal because this year I've started to bring on a new team of associates and for each new associate, I'm going to sit down with them, have a conversation with them. You can listen into that conversation just so that we get to understand a bit more about who they are and what they do and you can get to know them. So on this episode I'm actually joined by Cynthia Fortladge. So, Cynthia, it's lovely to see you. Thanks for joining us.

Cynthia Fortladge: Thanks for having me, Toby, it's wonderful to be here with you again.

Toby Mildon: So you are no stranger to this podcast because I've actually interviewed you previously and we talked about your main philosophy, which is around acceptance without understanding. And no doubt we can talk about that again today. But today we're just going to talk a bit more about, a bit more broadly about who you are, what you do and what brought you into this line of work. But let's just start off with just learning more about you. So can you tell us about who you are and what you do for us?

Cynthia Fortladge: Absolutely. I'll make it pithy. So Cynthia Fortladge, she, her pronouns. I am a global award winning inclusive leadership and gender diversity consultant. So the work that I do with Toby and Milden Associates is very much focused on the leadership development component. And you know, we're just working on some brand new stuff such as interesting topics like cultural due diligence in mergers and acquisitions. It's just some of the really unique insights that we're bringing to the table as part of our relationship.

Toby Mildon: And how did we first meet?

Cynthia Fortladge: I don't fully remember where we met. I believe it was on an online event together. That's kind of the first place. And then we had a follow-up call. And then we ended up, I know, doing a podcast that resulted in a great article. And yeah, we've just continued, I think, staying in touch. And we've had an opportunity to work together a few times. And that's been really exciting. And now, thankfully, you've invited me to be part of Mildon Associates.

Toby Mildon: Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? The world works in mysterious ways. Like we suddenly just bump into people. And then you realize that you've, I don't know, something just sparks. And you realize that you've got a shared set of values or a shared purpose around the work that you do. And then you just end up doing work together.

Cynthia Fortladge: Absolutely. And I think that's the beauty of this kind of work is that inclusion is for everyone. And so, therefore, we all bring unique aspects and insights into this conversation. And so, hopefully, that is the amazing collection of associates that you've brought to the table that I've had a chance to meet a few of them. So, yeah, I'm excited to see what we can do together.

Toby Mildon: Yeah, I've tried to, this year, build up a really strong team of associates that have got different expertise, different lived experience. Everyone has got that business and commercial background so that we can go into businesses and we can speak the business lingo. But then everyone has got also their own unique expertise as well that they can bring to the party. I mean, what got you into inclusion work in the first place?

Cynthia Fortladge: It's a life journey. The simplest answer for the audience is I experienced, after a 30-year corporate career where I was Vice President of IT and CIO, so a C-suite role, I ended up leaving that role under a non-disclosure agreement with a settlement because of how I was treated. And that was after I came out as transgender in 2016. And in 2019, we parted ways. And when it struck me that nobody should have to go through being treated like that and that I not only had a unique story, but I had a unique set of skills. Trust me, that's not a movie line. I have a unique set of skills where I can help organizations ensure they don't repeat for any of their employees the kinds of experiences that I went through. So, combining my depth of leadership experience, now my decade in gender equity work, which includes in the women's movement as well as in the LGBTQ+ movement, it's just a huge wealth. And I've done it globally. I've worked with so many corporates as you have. And it just felt like, yeah, this is something that is heart-centered work.

Cynthia Fortladge: People always ask me, well, how do you define success? And I measure it by how my heart and soul feel at the end of doing the work, not by what the bank book says. We always want both to look good, but for me, it's heart and soul-focused work because of what I personally went through. And I just want to make sure nobody ever has to go through that again.

Toby Mildon: Yeah, I've had similar philosophy in that as a disabled person I've faced lots of obstacles and barriers and discriminatory behavior and it really it saddens me when I talk to younger people with the same condition as me and they're still telling me the same barriers that they're facing and I'm like, those are the same barriers that I faced 20 or 30 years ago. And so yeah, I'm in the business of trying to remove those barriers as well.

Cynthia Fortladge: Yeah.

Toby Mildon: What does a sort of typical day look like for you then when you're doing this work?

Cynthia Fortladge: Well, I mean, like these days it's you get up, you get your day started. You know, this summer I'm spending quite a bit of time with what I love to call my furry flatmate when I'm in London over the winter. I have my furry flatmate comes and lives. And so our routine is we're up out the door by seven going for anywhere from an hour to two hour walk. It's a great way to clear the mind, start the day. I come back, I get ready, have breakfast, catch up on the news, and then dive into the work, which a lot of it centered around thought leadership and creating that basis of demonstrable expertise that I'm doing constantly. And that, of course, manifests in many different ways. But at the end of the day, it's really through that. And then obviously the outreach, both directly and indirectly a lot of networking will happen kind of throughout the week, just trying to connect with others and be able to find out what kind of challenges people are having so that if I'm not already addressing that in the work that I'm developing, whether it's creating a workshop, whether it's turning it into some articles, whether or not it's actually creating a deep dive research report, or it becomes the basis of writing a new book, whatever that may manifest, that's really where where it kind of comes into play.

Cynthia Fortladge: And a lot of that's driven by what I'm hearing and what people are talking about in the pain points, regardless what kind of networking event, everybody's always talking about inclusion, because it impacts everyone.

Toby Mildon: Absolutely. You might have touched on this already, actually, but what is an inclusion myth that you often challenge?

Cynthia Fortladge: I probably run into a number of different myths throughout, but they're really founded on two aspects. One is from a transgender perspective, and there's a number of myths to deal with it. I always find it amazing that people have these preconceived ideas. We know a lot of it shaped by the headlines in the news cycle and what we see in the socio-political space these days. And so there's any number of kind of messages that come out. And the answer to that is that we simply just want to live and exist. And so when they see that I'm doing that, they kind of go, oh, that's not what I thought. Right. So you kind of, and the other one is, in the leadership space, is a lot of people still confuse management from leadership. And the realization, the way that I try and simplify it is, think of management as the formal title and the systems and processes that are given to a person, maybe measured by a KPI that they have to accomplish as a part of their job. Where leadership is developing the soft skills that help people, your employees, unlock the discretionary effort that every single one of them walks in the door with.

Cynthia Fortladge: But unless you and your managers become leaders, those leaders need to create the right environment to allow those employees to feel safe so that they unlock that discretionary effort. And we know from studies, that's about 15% of discretionary effort that you can unlock for your organization if you just get the leadership part right. It's not management, it's leadership.

Toby Mildon: Yeah, definitely. And whenever I do inclusive leadership workshops, I like to talk about Maxwell's leadership, the five levels of leadership. And what Maxwell says is that when you're at the pinnacle of leadership, at the top of the pyramid, it's all about empowering other people, lifting other people up and developing other leaders. So whereas if you're at the bottom of the pyramid, it's all about authority and people have to follow you, whether they like it or not.

Cynthia Fortladge: Absolutely. Simon Sinek, the American business consultant, he's known for his people buy why you do what you do, not what or how you do it. And one of the things that I love that he talks about is being a leader is probably one of the most intimate things you can do in business because of your effort to develop those relationships and connections with other human beings. And the responsibility of that leader is to care for those people, much as a parent might care for a child. And it doesn't mean in a paternalistic manner, it means showing the care for those people. And that means being inclusive. And being inclusive is akin in some ways at some levels like allyship. And allyship is about creating a relationship which is founded on three very important but simple concepts, consistency, accountability, and transparency. Right? Which builds trust. That's it. Yeah.

Toby Mildon: So would you say those are the three things that you wish leaders would do more of? Or is there something else that you think leaders should be saying or doing?

Cynthia Fortladge: Well, I think leaders, if I look at my own lessons of what I try and help others understand was, for me to move out of what I thought I was as a leader, because I thought it was related to the title, and now I realize, well, that was management, because it was formal. And the way that I have through my work internationally within the feminist movement, or within the global LGBTQ+ movement, it's come down to those relationship skills. And so one of the aspects is a leader has to learn to fight what I've been taught is their ego monster, right? And they need to be able to bring vulnerability, not as a skill of weakness, but as a skill of strength, in order to actually open themselves up. I think too many leaders are afraid of that. So that's vulnerability, being open to that skill of vulnerability is one of those things. Those three words, right, they're really the key words on building a relationship that we call allyship. And so for all individuals, you need to think in terms of allyship for all of the people you work with, which means if you don't know them, and you don't know what kind of barriers they may be facing, because perhaps they have invisible barriers, then that's part of your challenge is that you have to create the empathy, the space to have that.

Cynthia Fortladge: So within allyship I would say let's build empathy as a key component. And then finally, the realization that this journey is about others, not ourselves. Even for me, I reflect on my journey as a parent. And the realization, I mean, my eldest is 32, my youngest is 28. And it's the realization that I don't care what they accomplish, what new award they got, or whatever it happens to be. I just care that they are turned out to be really good human beings doing good things in this world, not bad things. And I think in the same way that we need to look and if we are not helping the people that we work with and that we're responsible to lead within an organization, and if we're not helping them to tap into their full potential, we're leaving a lot on the table, not only for that employee that we didn't help, but also for the loss, the organization who doesn't get to enjoy the benefit that that employee could have brought. And so learning to tap others for their full potential would be the third and final aspect that I would talk about.

Toby Mildon: How do you personally define inclusion? And has that changed for you over the years?

Cynthia Fortladge: I think generally as a concept, it hasn't changed in that it means all. It was it's much akin to me learning the journey of feminism and thinking, oh, well, this is just for women. And then realize, well, feminism actually has its base. And as someone who's led the movement nationally within Canada it's about equality for everyone, for all sexes, all genders, especially under the fourth wave that we have now. So the definition has changed of say what feminism is because it's evolved. And I think inclusion is in the same way it's evolving. You know, now we, I mean, a phrase I hear now that we didn't always talk about was, for instance, inclusion for all, right? We would talk about we want to create workplaces where your employees feel they belong. And we wouldn't necessarily always put the word all or try and make it as encompassing. So I think in that way, the definition has given us clarity that we need to be doing this work with everyone in mind. Because from my perspective, every employee carries that 15 % of discretionary effort. Why would an employer not want to tap into that and do the work to create an environment where every single employee, all employees want to give that discretionary effort?

Cynthia Fortladge: So in that way, I think it's it is evolving in how we see it or perceive it. But generally the conversation about all and again, from my perspective, I went from the pinnacle of having the trifecta of privilege white male and having the title and the whole bit and realize, well, that wasn't even me. And just to simply be me, I had to lose all of that. And so the idea of inclusion, I think for me, the lens has widened much bigger than what you might have asked. If I'm carrying all that privilege and I don't have to see the world because my world doesn't show me the weakness. And I've used the analogy of when we carry a privilege. And again, not all privilege is bad. It's not like shame on you. It's just, no, you might have been born into a family that gave you privilege. You might have gone to a particular school. You know, we had no decision as far as I know of which family we were born into. And that may have given you a particular privilege.

Cynthia Fortladge: And so that aspect is like I always use the analogy of a horse with blinders. And it's like when a horse is wearing blinders or blinkers, right, they are limited to what they see. This is their view of the world. But when you can take those blinkers off and you can see the whole world, I mean, my first experience with that was, oh my gosh, is this really how the world has been working? Because I never saw it because I had so much privilege. It was only when I didn't have that privilege, I could actually see it. So now I keep uncovering more privilege by taking off those blinders more and more so that I can see more and more. You know, that's part of the work of developing self-awareness in leaders is for them to be able to recognize what are the blinkers, the blinders hiding from them and allow them to kind of open it up. And so that's an ongoing exercise. It's not a one and done. I do that myself to myself many, many times a year as I continue to challenge myself on areas where I'm not as much of an advocate or ally as I would like to be.

Toby Mildon: Yes, constantly work in progress. As you were describing that metaphor, it reminded me when I was working in corporate, I had an executive coach and he said his job was to, it was almost as if I was looking at the outside world through the letterbox of the front door. So you get quite a limited view and his job was to help me unlock the front door so that I got a bigger view on the world outside. I thought that was quite a nice, that was a metaphor that kind of stuck with me as the importance of coaching.

Cynthia Fortladge: Absolutely.

Toby Mildon: So what is like a practical tip that you would recommend for building inclusion?

Cynthia Fortladge: One of the things that I've found is a very simple exercise and you can find it many ways. I've created my own version and adapted it, but you know, there's this aspect of a privilege walk, right? You can find many YouTube videos on it being done. And look, every time somebody does it, they usually have a particular area or focus, whether they're trying to focus on race or gender or power, whatever it happens to be, could be ability, disability. And so the whole idea is, I mean, it was fact that you gave me a set of resources. I forget the university that has them, but it was a set of resources. I have it bookmarked and you can do all of these bias tests and I go and I run for them, even on areas that I'm teaching that I have done a decade's worth of work and I'm pretty good, but I'm not getting a perfect score. So I know I have more work to do. And so I continually test myself on my bias, which helps me raise my consciousness level about the bias that I'm carrying every single day, because that could make me blind to a particular area that might help somebody.

Cynthia Fortladge: So I need to always be consciously aware of my blind spots. And so I'm always looking for them and everyone else can do that.

Toby Mildon: Yeah, it's probably the Harvard Implicit Association test that I shared with you. Yeah, it's funny because when I was working for the BBC, I was a participant of unconscious bias training. First time I'd ever learned about unconscious bias training. And the trainer got us to take the Harvard Implicit Association tests. And I found out I was mildly biased against disabled people, which was shocking for me because I was born with my disability. My brother's got the same condition as me. I've got loads of disabled friends. Yeah, I've got this mild bias. And then when I started researching why I'm basically the product of the society in which I've grown up in. So I've absorbed the same stereotypes about disability. And it's almost like I've built this internalized ableism. And that's why I've ended up with a bias in that that's with me being disabled.

Cynthia Fortladge: Yeah, I hear you because I have the same aspect when I do the gender and diversity. And you would think somebody that's nationally led the movement on behalf of all others has got this nailed and perfect, but we're human.  We're human. And we are subjects of a system that teaches us in many ways through many different layers. It's not just we went to uni and we got no, it's happened through our entire life. And we have bias. We need to keep unpicking and unpacking. And that's how we become better human beings. And when we're leaders, that's how we create better organizations, and ultimately better systems.

Toby Mildon: Definitely. So can you just explain to us the workshops that you run for us?

Cynthia Fortladge: Absolutely. So they really focus on a multi-stage approach, really develop kind of the four P's. So it's about kind of creating awareness. And then once you create awareness, it's about taking that and kind of putting that into practice. And then when you've got that kind of begin into practice, you need to know kind of how you overcome what you find practice isn't making you perfect at. And so the next one is you're kind of perfecting those skill sets through other tools that we bring into it. And then finally, the last one is really when you are on your journey of developing your leadership, it's really about creating and articulating who you are as a leader. And I always like to make this think of it as something that's aspirational. And so the outcome at that final piece would be, for instance, creating a leadership agenda. And the leadership agenda is a basic document that kind of says, this is the kind of leader I am. This is what I stand for. You know, this is how I lead. And this is kind of how I like to interact or to help people.

Cynthia Fortladge: And when somebody wants to deal with you, in my experience in an organization, rather than kind of like have your name on a door kind of analogy, where I was at in one place, they had the leadership agenda on the door. So when you wanted to go see a leader, before you walk in, you can see the type of person they tell you they are. That's powerful for especially employees who come into someone that maybe it's their direct boss, maybe it's their boss's boss, whoever it might be. But they're walking into an environment. And that process of creating that and publishing it within an organization is about creating a level of accountability. So if you as a leader are not behaving in line with who you've told everybody you are, somebody can kind of go, excuse me, that doesn't seem in the line with what you say on the door. And so it's to do it, the leader has to own their vulnerability and be able to step up and take that accountability very publicly, because that's what they're actually declaring through the process. And so to get there, all of the sessions help build a leader up to have all of those skill sets necessary in order to actually execute on their vision of the leader they want to be.

Toby Mildon: They sound quite nice, logical steps to go through if you want to develop as a leader.

Cynthia Fortladge: Yeah, absolutely. I modeled it after training that I was put through myself through my corporate days. But what the training that I was given did not include was the idea of inclusion. It was assumed and unwritten much as a patriarchal set of rules of the way we operate behaviorally within society also dictate some of that. And so what I've done is intentionally address the issue of inclusion within that. So when we look at a tool, I can point out and tell you the negative side of that tool, how it could be used for exclusion. But what we're going to do to intentionally make it a tool for inclusion is how we end up learning about that tool and actually putting it into practice.

Toby Mildon: That's cool. So how do you take care of yourself when things get tough? Because it is difficult working in the EDI field.

Cynthia Fortladge: Yeah, I mean, I think as I was telling you in the prelude to this call, I didn't realize I hadn't been out of London really for five years. And I arrived in 2020. Here it is 2025. And this summer, I'm on a 90 day summer tour, and it's putting me into different locales and places. And I just never realized how much weight of the everyday in London in the space in the UK, because I'm not in the UK right now, I'm in France. And just the difference to live and exist in a place where those that don't know me just call me madame or mademoiselle. I always love it when they call me mademoiselle. Must be a good day, the lighting's right. The reality is, is I've never experienced that in my five years in London to know what it's like just to simply exist and be able to do what I do every day. And there's no issues, there's no hang up that you're not having to navigate a whole bunch of noise related to it. So that that is new, and very refreshing for me. So I will probably do more of that.

Cynthia Fortladge: Secondly, is getting out in nature, whether I'm up in Northwest London, going to Hampstead Heath, and walking or walking down along the canals, down near Camden, that's always very much a part of my refresh is the idea of change your scenery in order to kind of change your, your mindset. That's always important. And a lot of meditation or meditation like practices come in in order to kind of center myself and make sure that I'm listening to myself, I'm listening to my spirit that I'm staying aligned, which is very important for me.

Toby Mildon: So just as we bring this conversation to a close, I've got some quick fire questions for you. So what is a book that you think everyone should read?

Cynthia Fortladge: The book that I always point to is Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence Others. It was, as a youngster, one of the first business-like books I've ever read. I've read it three times. I own a couple of different copies and is a foundational skill that they don't teach in school that I think everybody should have.

Toby Mildon: And who is somebody who has influenced your work?

Cynthia Fortladge: Oh, well, I would say initially it was all the women that I met when I realized the world was not as equal as I thought it was. They have influenced it. When I was asked to step into leadership within the regional LGBTQ+ center and I led the board there, that meant I was leading on behalf of the whole community and they have taught me a lot. My dad taught me a lot about business and how to behave in business. But my kids have taught me a lot about how to be a good citizen, a better citizen than I was as their parent before. I now am learning much better ways.

Toby Mildon: And what is a skill that you're working on?

Cynthia Fortladge: I still don't think I'm a good enough anti-racist and I need to keep doing more work to be 

Toby Mildon: Anti-racist. And what's your go-to comfort activity?

Cynthia Fortladge: I have a couple of really guilty pleasure on Netflix that I just turn off my brain and I can just sit and be entertained. That or dancing. I love dancing and dancing is an escape.

Toby Mildon: And finally, what's one small thing that brings you peace?

Cynthia Fortladge: It's gonna sound really corny, but when I look in the mirror and I see who I am now, I love who I am now. It just brings me complete peace that I've never knew for over 50 years of my life. And that's a gift every day.

Toby Mildon: It is, yeah, because that's beautiful because you radiate that energy out to other people. And what else would you like to say to the person listening to us right now as we bring today's conversation to a close?

Cynthia Fortladge: Well, I can't believe we didn't get through a conversation and I didn't once mention acceptance without understanding. So I think I have to. I am very spiritual by nature and that spirit brought me to acceptance without understanding during a very dark part of my life. And I have learned that it's not just about me, that it's about everyone, that we are all human beings and we are all so beautifully complex that we are beyond understanding. And the only choice we have is to accept another human being as to who they tell us they are, because chances are you're still on your journey figuring out who you are. And so all we can simply do is accept each other as to who we know we are in that moment. That's acceptance without understanding.

Toby Mildon: Amazing. And we actually did a whole episode on that. So if the person listening to us now wants to go deeper into that philosophy, then please go back to the previous episode that Cynthia and I recorded together. So Cynthia, thanks ever so much for joining me today. It's been lovely to catch up with you. And I'm so pleased that you've joined our team of associates and that we're now officially working together.

Cynthia Fortladge: Thank you, Toby. And I equally am loving it. I love working with you. I think you are so brilliant, along with the rest of the team that you have. And I am just absolutely delighted to bring what I do as be a small part and contribute to the great things that the associates are capable of doing. So thank you.

Toby Mildon: You're welcome. Thank you. And thank you for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast with Cynthia and myself. Hopefully you've taken away some ideas and inspiration that you can apply to your work. And if there's anything that Cynthia or I can do to support you in developing inclusive leaders in your organization, then please do reach out to us, either through the website, mildon.co.uk, or you can connect with Cynthia or myself on LinkedIn and send us a message on LinkedIn. Look out for the next episode, which of the Inclusive Growth Podcast with another fabulous guest, which will be coming out soon. Until then, take good care of yourself and I'll see you soon. Take care. Bye.

Speaker 1:  Thank you for listening to The Inclusive Growth Show. For further information and resources from Toby and his team, head on over to our website at mildon.co.uk.