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Inclusive Growth Show
I love driving diversity and inclusion at the leadership level. Each week, I host insightful conversations where we explore the journey of inclusive growth, discuss strategies for engaging senior leaders in equity, diversity, and inclusion, and share practical tips to inspire and empower meaningful change.
Inclusive Growth Show
How Love-Based Cultures Boost Organisational Performance
What if love, not fear, was the foundation of your workplace culture?
In this enlightening episode, Toby Mildon is joined by Simon Phillips - founder of The Change Maker Group and co-host of the Love Lead Change Podcast - to explore the transformative concept of a love-based organisation. They unpack the difference between love- and fear-based cultures and why empathy, psychological safety, and human-centred leadership are vital for inclusive growth.
Simon introduces the LACE Framework - Listening, Accountability, Collaboration and Empathy - and how it’s helping organisations shift from compliance-driven environments to high-performing, human-focused cultures. With references to Google’s Project Aristotle and Renee Smith’s research, Simon brings compelling evidence to back the business case for cultural change.
Key takeaways:
- What defines a love-based organisation—and why it matters
- Real-world data linking empathy and performance
- The core principles of the LACE Framework
- Practical tips for being a change-maker
- Why active listening is tougher—and more important—than we think
Guest Highlights:
Simon Phillips, Change Leadership Expert
🌐 Website: https://thechangemakergroup.com/
🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonphillips/
🔗 Resources:
- Renee Smith's work: https://www.reneesmithspeaks.com/writing
- Love Lead Change Podcast: https://shows.acast.com/love-lead-change
If you want to build a more inclusive workplace that you can be proud of please visit our website to learn more.
Intro Welcome to the Inclusive Growth Show, with Toby Mildon. Future-proofing
your business by creating a diverse workplace. Toby Mildon:Hey there, thank you ever so much for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast. I'm Toby Mildon, and today I'm joined by Simon Phillips. And we're going to be talking about creating a culture of a love-based organization. Not something I've come across before, so I'm really interested to understand from Simon what a love-based organization is, how it helps organizations thrive. It's something that well-known organizations like Google, have been researching and looking into, and academic research as well from somebody called Renee Smith, so we'll be exploring what they had to say about it. But without further ado, Simon, thanks ever so much for joining me today.
It's lovely to see you. Simon Phillips:Hi, Toby. It's great to be
here. Toby Mildon:So before we dive into the questions to really understand what a love-based organization is, could you just start by telling us a bit about yourself and your background and what has led you to this
point in time? Simon Phillips:Yeah, thank you. So I think I started out in change management. It's not just a think. I know I did. I started out in change management with the artist formerly known as Andersen Consulting, that's now Accenture, of course. And so, I've always been in and around change, helping organizations and teams think about how do they cope with this constant barrage almost of change? And I founded the Change Maker Group in 2015. I host The Change Show Podcast. And more recently, I've been focusing in on, so what actually makes the difference? And trying to focus on change makers, change leaders, people who are there to create the great environment that we all deserve, when it comes down to work. And so, I've created a LACE Framework, which I can tell you more about as we chat. And it's just helping them switch from what are very fear-based organizational cultures
to, as you say, love-based cultures. Toby Mildon:Yeah, that's really great. Yeah, I think it goes without saying that working in a fear-based culture is not conducive for personal or team performance. So it's something that obviously I was interested in hearing more about from you. That's why we got you on the podcast. But can you just explain to us more about what exactly is a love-based organization? And how does this differ from, say, traditional
models of running teams? Simon Phillips:Yeah, of course. So a love-based organization operates from empathy, psychological safety, and human-centered decision-making. Whereas fear-based organizations are driven by compliance, control, and almost punishment-based management systems. It's all relatively subtle, and we probably don't even notice it too much. But what you actually find is in fear-based cultures, there's a lot of tick-box mentality, people doing things just because they have to, rather than really investing their thought processes and their emotions into what they're doing. And avoiding, if you like, really embodying, would probably choose to do if they were really put on the spot. And as a result, we create cultures because the problem is, if you have a part of your organization that is fear-based, it actually has that ripple effect across the rest of the organization. So people do what they get paid for and what they get measured for. And so, we're creating fear-based cultures almost by default. Toby
Mildon:It seems like a no-brainer question, but why is it important for organizations to cultivate this more love-based culture? And what is the
business case behind it? Simon Phillips:It's really interesting, Toby, 'cause the assumption is that, this is all a bit woolly and a bit lightweight. But in fact, a lot of the evidence is now showing that love-based cultures enhance performance, because they replace that sense of fear with empathy and care, and that leads to higher engagement, better collaboration, and as you can imagine, sustainable business results. So it's not just something that's a quick win. It can create quick impact, but it does embed itself in a
way that leads to overall enhanced performance. Toby Mildon:You mentioned that it's not woolly, that there is academic or scientific backing to this, and I mentioned Google at the top of the show, but somebody else that you mentioned to me in the past was Renee Smith and the research that they've done. So can you just explain a bit more about Renee's research and how it supports the concept of
a love-based organization? Simon Phillips:Yeah, absolutely. So I met Renee during COVID, and was really attracted to the work that she was doing. So she and I are now co-hosts on the Love Lead Change Podcast, where we're continuing her research into what really makes the difference, focusing on authentic leadership and what it takes to create inclusive communities in the workplace. So she's been doing this research both qualitative and quantitative for quite some time now. And I've got three metrics that I often talk to people about. So she's measured a 42-70% improvement in what she calls essential human skills, where people have fed back to her, that it's things like gratitude and care, self-awareness and awareness of others. Listening, managing biases, connecting behaviors, inclusion, trust and resilience, self-care. So all of those elements, if you like, that are quite difficult to measure quantitatively. But what she's done is ask people, what did you see improving? Give me that direct feedback. And that's the sort of percentages she saw there. She also saw and has recorded 34-56% increase in positive team behaviors, including things like recognition, connection across teams, sharing ideas, the ability to have productive disagreements and forgiveness and fun, was
also two other things that people have related. Simon Phillips:And then finally, 33-66% growth in customer centric behaviors. So perceiving and an overall awareness of customers as humans, seeking to understand their needs, engaging with them and committing to meeting those needs. So they're quite holistic in their application, and it all stems from people feeling valued, people feeling connected, people feeling like, whatever their background, they have an authentic role to play. And that's what she's tuned into.
Toby Mildon:Excellent. This is something that Google has been interested in as well. And through the Aristotle project, what insights did they gain? And how does this Aristotle project relate
to creating a love-based culture? Simon Phillips:Yeah, absolutely. They really pioneered this with their Aristotle project, because the thing that they noticed was that psychological safety was the thing that came out as the most critical factor for high performing teams. So they scaled this right across their organization and that validates that trust and empathy drive results. Again, they're not just subtle or low impact things. If you can create environments of trust, and if you can create environments where people empathize with the people around them,
that generates real high performance. Toby Mildon:I'm glad they came up with that because the work that I do around inclusive leadership and building high performing inclusive teams, I often talk about Patrick Lencioni's five dysfunctions of a team model. And at the bottom of the pyramid, he talks about trust is a critical component. And then also being able to have constructive conflict or Radical Candor, as Kim Scott would put it in her book of the same name. So I'm glad to see that Google arrived at the same understanding that trust is a real
strong foundation that's required. Simon Phillips: Yeah. Toby Mildon:Now in the work that you do, you've come up with a framework, the LACE framework, L-A-C-E, and that stands for Listening, Accountability, Collaboration and Empathy. Could you just explain a bit more about this framework and how it can enhance organizational culture?
Simon Phillips:Absolutely. I'd like to start by saying that, although it's called a framework, it's much more than that. It feels to me like it's more of a movement for inclusive growth. It's an opportunity to do something very simplistically, to spread the word about what it takes to create the types of cultures that you and I are talking about. And that you and I are campaigning about almost on a daily basis. So the points around LACE are it's ensuring that all voices are heard, and that's what listening really is all about. It's about maintaining equitable treatment, and that's where the accountability part comes in. Integrating diverse perspectives, which is what the collaboration point is all about, and then centering human-focused decision-making, which
is where the empathy plays a part. Simon Phillips:And all of that, naturally promotes DEI through love-based leadership rather than fear-based compliance. I was writing an article last week talking about this relationship between empathy and accountability, because that's what sits at the core of all of this. It's about looking around at the people that we work with, and looking for opportunities to get the best from everyone, and then hold people accountable for what they're delivering. So again, it's not a soft mechanism. This is tough stuff. I love it when people talk about soft skills and then ignore them completely because they're too hard to
implement. These are challenging things to get right. Simon Phillips:And I think if we can create organizations where rather than just scoring things and creating metrics around these things, we can actually deploy real listening and real empathy for the challenge that it is to keep ahead of all of this stuff and deliver it well, then I think
we will create the organizations that we want. Toby Mildon:I've kind of laughing to myself inside this, you were describing that, 'cause when I worked for the BBC, I went on a course called Coaching Skills for Managers, where I learned about listening. Until I'd been on that course, I realized how much of a bad listener I was, 'cause I was hearing what people were saying, but I wasn't really listening to them, and I certainly wasn't behaving in an empathic way, which for me is all about holding the space to really understand where people are coming from, what their experience is like, resisting the urge to jump to assumptions or conclusions or to start thinking for other people or start coming up with solutions for other people. So yeah, like you say, we say it's soft skills, but they're actually very hard to master,
aren't they? Simon Phillips:Absolutely. How do you fancy a quick assessment,
Toby? Are you up for it? Toby Mildon: Yeah. Simon Phillips:So, listening. When did you last truly listen without preparing your
response? Which is that point you were just making, isn't it? Toby Mildon:Good question. I would like to think I was doing that when I was coaching a very senior leader of a client of mine, but I was going in with my coaching hat on, but probably on a day-to-day basis, with my partner, for example, probably something I haven't actively done
very well. Simon Phillips:Let's move on quickly then. So, accountability. What's one commitment you made but haven't followed
through on? Toby Mildon:Oh, that's a good one. Trying to be less of a workaholic. I'm
still a workaholic. Simon Phillips:Collaboration. Name one person you could
collaborate with better? Toby Mildon:So, part of growing my business this year is by bringing on a team of associates. So, I think there's
definitely room to collaborate with them more. Simon Phillips:Yeah,
perfect. Toby Mildon:For them to help me
deliver more work to clients. Simon Phillips:Excellent. And finally, how
did you show empathy in your last difficult conversation? Toby Mildon:By really listening and not trying to come up with the answer, but just by holding that space and listening and trying to really understand
somebody else's perspective and where they're coming from. Simon Phillips:Love it. I was talking to someone on the weekend, and they're not really familiar with all of this sort of approaches to leadership and management and all the rest of it. And they were almost making a joke of this phrase, making space for people. And so, I was helping him understand it a bit. 'Cause I said, when was the last time you gave somebody a good listening to? And it just allowed them to sort of put it back into a different perspective of, oh yeah, actually, I'm quite good at giving people a good talking to, but not a good listening to. And that's really what it is, a good listening. It's making sure that you're there for the person and listening and responding to what they say rather than, as you
say. Toby Mildon: Definitely. Simon Phillips: An agenda already. Toby Mildon:It's funny, 'cause when we're in conversation with somebody, whether that's a colleague or our significant other in life, they might say something like, "Oh, this happened to me today." And you're like, oh, yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Something similar happened to me a few weeks ago or whatever. And it's like, that's not real active listening. You're not really listening to what they're saying, 'cause you're just overlaying your own personal experience on top of that. And your experience is going to be very different to their
experience. Simon Phillips: Of course. Toby Mildon:But it's like, yeah, I love your questions. I love your questions.
So do I get a score for that? Simon Phillips:You don't want to know, Toby. You park it. But the great thing about those questions is, it just demonstrates how easy it is to get into the right conversations about the way that we behave in work. And that's what I'm trying to do with this, is make it really accessible so people can
feel that they're capable of developing this type of culture. Toby Mildon:Yeah, and I love it. So I suppose leading on from this really, how can the person listening to us right now, be an effective changemaker in their organization using the LACE framework, perhaps? And
what resources do you recommend that they access? Simon Phillips:Yeah, so thanks for asking. So the first thing, I've created something called changemakerpledge.com, which is part of my mission to create a million changemakers, people who are keen to help others to make change happen. And so, there's some free resources on there that relate to some of this thinking. And then, I've got a full sort of 15 minute LACE leadership reset, which people just get in touch. I can explain a bit more about that. But it's meant to be a quick diagnostic to help them to evaluate where they are right now. And then, as I mentioned, the podcast, we interview people who are trying to put this stuff into practice and hear from them real anecdotes about
what's working and what's not working just now. Toby Mildon:Excellent.
Loads of resources to get started with there. Simon Phillips:Yeah.
Toby Mildon:Now, before you go, Simon, what does inclusive growth mean
for you? Simon Phillips:So inclusive growth for me means creating environments where every person's unique strengths contribute to the collective success. And it's measured not just by financial metrics, but by human flourishing. And as we said earlier, that notion of sustainable transformation. So many people are overlooked, misrepresented, misunderstood in the contribution they can make. And so, if we create environments where we listen and we really collaborate and hold ourselves accountable for those things,
then I think it will create real inclusive growth. Toby Mildon:Now, if the person listening to us right now wants to learn more about creating more of a love-based culture in their company, and they wanna reach out to you for some more information and support, how can they do that?
Simon Phillips:So they can contact me through simonphillips.co.uk or connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to catch up with them.
Toby Mildon:Brilliant. Well, Simon, thank you ever so much for taking time out of your day today to have this conversation. I really appreciate it. And thanks for all the work that you do in creating great
cultures. Simon Phillips:No, likewise, Toby. Thanks for all the work you're doing. It's just amazing. And it's been a real pleasure to spend some
time with you today. Toby Mildon:Thanks. I really appreciate that. Thank you. And thank you for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast today with Simon and myself, Toby. We learned lots today about what a love-based organization and culture is, and how it differs from other models of operating a culture. We've learned about the great research that's been done by Renee Smith, and how actually large organizations like Google through the Aristotle Project are really demonstrating that this is the way to go. This is a great framework to use in order to create high-performing teams. And Simon has created the LACE framework, which stands for listening, accountability, collaboration and empathy. And this is a really great framework if you want to create a high-performing culture in your organization. So thanks ever so much for tuning in to this episode. And I very much look forward to seeing you on the next episode, which will be coming out very soon. Until then, take good care of yourself. Bye-bye. Intro Thank you for listening to the Inclusive Growth Show. For further information and resources from Toby and his team, head on over to our website @mildon.co.uk.
