Supporting Menopause and Mental Health for Inclusive Workplaces

Menopause and mental health: why silence in the workplace is no longer an option.

In this compelling episode of the Inclusive Growth Show, Toby Mildon is joined by Haley from Menospace and Victoria from Minds That Work to explore the powerful intersection of menopause and mental health in the workplace.

Haley shares her personal and professional journey into menopause advocacy, while Victoria reflects on her mental health work and how their collaboration emerged from a shared passion. Together, they highlight the often-overlooked impacts of perimenopause on psychological wellbeing and the urgent need for inclusive organisational support.

Key takeaways include:

• Why perimenopause symptoms are often mistaken or ignored.
• How menopause intersects with mental health and performance.
• The business case for supporting midlife employees.
• Practical steps for HR leaders to create psychologically safe workplaces.
• How awareness, training, and policy can drive cultural change.

Guest Highlights:

• Haley, Founder of Menospace: Website | LinkedIn
• Victoria, Founder of Minds That Work: Website | LinkedIn

Don't miss their specialist course Breaking the Silence, an accredited training on menopause and mental health.

If you're enjoying this episode and looking to boost equity, inclusion, and diversity in your organisation, my team and I are here to help. Our team specialises in crafting data-driven strategies, developing inclusive leaders, designing fair recruitment processes, and enhancing disability confidence. With a blend of professional expertise and lived experience, we're ready to support you on your journey. Reach out to us through our website. 

If you want to build a more inclusive workplace that you can be proud of please visit our website to learn more.

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to the Inclusive Growth Show with Toby Mildon, future-proofing your business by creating a diverse workplace. Hey there, thank you ever so much for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast. I'm Toby Mildon, and today I'm joined by Haley and Victoria, who are both experts in the menopause and mental health. So I'm going to have a really fascinating conversation with them. So let's just dive straight in. Victoria and Haley, it's lovely to see you. Thanks for joining me today. Thanks for having us. Really exciting. Haley, maybe I could come to you first. Can you just tell us a bit about yourself and the work that you do and how you got into menopause and mental health work? Absolutely. Great to be here. I'm Haley. I'm founder of an organization called Menospace. We specialize in organizational training, consultancy, and events within the menopause space. And my background is in organizational psychology. So I've got a degree and a master's in organizational psychology. And so leading up to COVID, that's the space that I worked in around well-being and mental health at work. And then COVID happened, as we all know, in 2020. And like a lot of people, I lost my work overnight. And at the same time, I started to experience some bizarre symptoms. So at that time, I was 40 going on to 41. And the first thing that happened was my irregular periods and then very heavy bleeding and other things which are very strange to me. So walking into a room and forgetting why I'd gone in there, not being able to remember the names of people that are close to me, the names of objects, waking up during the night covered in sweat, really anxious. My mood was very low and lots of different things like that. And so my GP referred me to the hospital because he was concerned about this heavy bleeding that I was having. And the upshot of those appointments was that the gynecologist told me I was in perimenopause. And at this point, I was 41. And I was shocked because I'd assumed that menopause would be something I would need to tackle when I was in my late 50s or early 60s, which is completely wrong. And so I came home and I started to do a lot of research around this topic. And the more digging I did, the more I uncovered that it was having a major impact on women in the workplace. So back then in 2020, CIPD and Bupa had done some research, which had shown that over 900,000 women had left work because they weren't getting the support that they needed in the workplace. And coming from that background of well-being and mental health at work, I was really shocked to find this out because nobody had ever mentioned this to me before. And that's what led me to getting a qualification around menopause and then eventually creating my own organization to support the needs of individuals and organizations around this. Thanks for sharing that, Haley. And how about you, Victoria? What's your background and how did you get into this space? Yeah, thanks, Toby. I founded my own company eight years ago called Minds That Work. And primarily it's about mental health in the workplace, from strategy and leadership and awareness training. And the reason why I started my company was I had my own kind of quite difficult struggles with my own mental health. This was like back in my 20s with kind of no support. And it kind of opened up through basically a complete breakdown. It opened up this whole world of what mental health was and emotions and all that kind of stuff. And I used to work in the city in central London and I left there to run a mental health charity and do my training in psychotherapy. And I upskilled in lots of other different interventions. And then I decided that actually that there was a huge gap in the workplace at that time, you know, like 10 years ago around supporting people with their general well-being and their mental health and awareness and all that kind of stuff. I really didn't want people to go through the same thing that I went through in the workplace. So this is when I set up my own company. So that's been thriving for eight years. I turned 50 a month ago and I'm pretty sure that I started to have symptoms of perimenopause, which are all very normal and natural, you know, kind of in my mid 40s. And I knew about menopause. I knew it as it was in the background of my mind. I knew older women in my life who obviously had gone through it, but it was always something that was like, oh, it's not a disease. We just go through it. You know, it's all hush hush. It's called the change or, you know, just watch out for her. It's kind of a bit very, very, very stigmatizing, a bit like mental health. And it was funny because like a year ago when I turned 49, I did a post on LinkedIn, a picture of me, which I never normally do because I'm quite shy in that respect. And the caption was, this is what 49 looks like. And I did a whole thing around menopause is coming and all that kind of stuff. And Haley saw my post and she reached out to me and she was saying, you know, let's connect. Let's kind of like see if there's anything that we can do together. And through kind of the conversations that we've had over the last, oh, it must be like eight, 10 months, if not a bit longer, we spotted this gap in the market, or primarily Haley spotted this gap in the market, being that she's in the menopause field in the workplace, around the real mismatch between the understanding of mental health and menopause. So my approach is really, is very compassionate in the workplace, working with people, but it's also quite strategic because I really want to help businesses, leaders, managers, and the individual to understand that supporting women, non-binary people with the symptoms of perimenopause, menopause, and their mental health is really essential, not just on their own well-being level and happiness, but also on a performance and retention level. You know, it's about long-term culture change. So yeah, it's kind of professional and kind of personal. Now, thank you both for sharing your background. I can see how you've come together and how you're a force to be reckoned with as a pair. And Victoria, I'm glad you mentioned kind of the intersectionality there where you were talking about women and non-binary individuals as well. Yeah, really important. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose how people experience the menopause and also their gender identity. So how does the menopause affect people's mental health and well-being? I'm happy to answer that one. So the symptoms of menopause vary greatly. And again, we're talking about intersectionality. So no two people will experience menopause in the same way. Everybody's experience will be different. And we do all have more than one identity. And depending on what those identities are, will impact on how we experience menopause. So for example, we know that women like myself and Victoria, who have struggled with mental health issues like depression and anxiety, unfortunately are more likely to experience symptoms that relate to that, such as low moods and mood fluctuations and those kind of things. And that is compounded by the hormone fluctuations. So the decline in estrogen and progesterone levels in our body can actually have an effect on our brain's chemistry. And that plays a part in our mood regulation, our memory, and our emotional resilience. And so things like anxiety, low mood, irritability, mood swings, brain fog, things that are very, very common, unfortunately. And then again, another major factor or another major symptom is sleep disturbances. So a lot of women report one of the biggest symptoms of menopause as being sleep disturbances. So that's either insomnia and/or waking up during the night, usually between the hours

of 3:00 AM and 4: 8:22

00 AM, not being able to get back to sleep. And that might seem like quite a small thing, but when you think about it, sleep has an impact on absolutely everything and in particular our moods. So if we're not getting enough sleep over a period of time, then that can have a real debilitating impact on somebody. And sleep helps to regulate our emotions, it helps to regulate our moods, it helps with our coping mechanisms and our resilience and our stress responses. So just one symptom like lack of sleep, which is a major symptom of perimenopause, can have such a major impact. And then another factor in all of this is that for the vast majority of us, menopause is something that happens in midlife, which also coincides with other major things that tend to be happening in midlife, like aging parents, children growing up and often leaving home. And then often women are at the height of their career then, or usually at the highest level in the career and/or with the most responsibilities. So all of this can lead to feelings of burnout and overwhelm and this feeling of not being able to cope. So when I talk to a number of my clients, I think there is more talk about menopause in the workplace now. It does feel like less of a taboo subject than it was. I do know that we've got a long way to go to make it more normalized to talk about it at work. But can you just share with us why you think people haven't really been talking much about menopause, but also I suppose like the intersection of menopause and people's mental health and well-being? Yeah, I think there's been this long-standing silence really around both menopause and mental health. And as you say, the conversation is getting better. There's definitely more awareness. It's in the press a lot more. And obviously, there are more trainings and things like that going on. There's definitely a lot of energy around both of these subjects, menopause and mental health. But I think when they do come together, there is actually a deeper silence because historically, menopause is being seen as very private, even quite embarrassing. And it's definitely under-researched, under-discussed. We know the disparity between the research around women's mental health and men's mental health. We know that a lot of medical research is based on men just because women have a cycle. Because of the hormone monthly changes, it does affect a lot of the medical research that's being done. So it's something that on a medical level, I'm not medicalizing menopause or perimenopause because obviously it's a natural process. But it's just the research around it, the impact on women is grossly under-researched. And we all know that when it comes to mental health, again, it is under-researched, under-funded, often over-medicalized as well. So I think in the workplace, although the conversation is getting better, people are still very reluctant to openly talk about it, particularly the anxiety, the mood changes, going into burnout. And as Haley mentioned, women at this age are potentially in the height of their roles at work. And so they feel that maybe they're not good enough. It really affects women's confidence. And they are, the bottom line is they're frightened of being managed out. And I do know two women who have been managed out because they were scared. They didn't feel psychologically safe in their work to talk about the mental health issues around this time. And many women don't realize that their symptoms are linked to perimenopause when it happens. It can kind of creep up. It becomes a new normal. It's not just something that happens overnight. And that stigma is kind of twofold. We've got societal stigma around mental health, where we're not good enough, where we shouldn't be experiencing these things. But we've also got this inner stigma, this inner shame. And we tend to self-judge because we're seen as less capable. We think we're less capable. And again, as Haley said, it can be linked with caring responsibilities, we're that what we could call the sandwich generation. So there's a real fear really rooted in outdated ideas of both gender and mental health. And the reality is that the impact is huge. It's really significant. And silence only makes it worse. So we need to have those conversations around mental health as a standalone thing and how it intersects with menopause. Thank you. This is one of those no-brainer questions, but for the sakes of clarity, why is it important for employers to support people who are experiencing menopause at work? Well, apart from ethical reasons, obviously, and retention reasons, like I said earlier, CIPD and Bupa did some research back in 2020 that showed over 900,000 women had left work. Actually, Korn Ferry did a more recent survey at the end of 2023 that shows over 13% of women are now leaving work due to a lack of support around menopause. And a huge number, I think it's 80%, don't feel comfortable voicing this. And then coupled with 13% of women leaving work due to a lack of support, a huge amount, I think it's 79% or 80%, don't feel comfortable voicing this to their manager, to their line manager, and then when you couple that with things like some of the symptoms of menopause, which can be things like lack of concentration, lacking confidence, lower energy levels, not being able to regulate moods as they normally would, that can obviously lead to things like absenteeism, lots of women going off on long-term sick if they're feeling unsupported and things aren't put in place. That can actually lead to them leaving altogether or taking the organization to a tribunal. We know that tribunals are tripling and they've been tripling year on year for about the last five or six years. And also, you know, it's this loss of staff, this loss of knowledge, what women of this age group take with them. And like you say, they're often at the peak of their career at that point. So they've accumulated lots of experience and knowledge and skills. Yep, exactly. So, you know, it's foolish not to support them, basically. So if the person listening to us right now is kind of thinking, what can I do to support people in my organization experiencing the menopause? Like, what's your advice to them? What are some of the practical things that employers could do to support people? So they need to start with awareness and education. So everybody needs to understand this topic. It doesn't just affect women and non-binary people, it affects everybody. It affects 100% of people. So basic awareness sessions so that everybody knows what menopause actually is and how it can impact people at work. And then a policy and/or guidelines should be put in place. We have seen a major increase in policies in the UK from 18% to 25% over the last couple of years. However, what we're finding is that a lot of this is being used as a tick box exercise. So although the amount of policies have gone up, the amount of women leaving work has also gone up. So it's negatively correlated. So get a policy, get guidelines in place, but make sure everybody knows about it and make sure everybody knows what their roles and responsibilities are within that and make sure that it's updated on a regular basis as well. And then definitely equip line managers on how to have conversations around menopause. I've worked with a few IT/tech companies who have a lot of younger male line managers who really struggle to have these conversations around menopause. So it's vital that they know how to have these conversations and that they feel comfortable having those conversations as well. Possibly set up some support networks, get some menopause champions in place so there's a designated person or persons that somebody can go to that they feel psychologically safe going to. And then lastly, do more specialist things like taking our mental health and menopause course. Yeah, thanks, Haley. I just love how practical all that advice is. I think it's things that organizations can really easily implement in their business. If we don't talk about menopause and mental health and the intersection of both of these things, what might happen within organizations? Yeah, I can answer this one. So I think if we stay silent, the consequences are really real for individuals and teams, for entire organizations, and really as society as a whole. Haley's just mentioned some of those statistics there. And I think on a personal level, women can feel very isolated, very confused, really ashamed. Many start with the question, do I have the ability to cope anymore? They're facing real psychological and physiological kind of changes that just aren't being acknowledged. And this can lead to this burnout, withdrawal from leadership, and that kind of lost talent. And we know that there's higher rates of suicide at this time as well for people experiencing menopause, which is a serious social issue. So on an individual level, the impact is huge. And then from an organizational perspective, the costs are high. We see increased absenteeism, reduced productivity, so presenteeism. So when people are at work, but that they can't work as well as they would like to, loss of institutional knowledge. Perhaps even more concerning is the impact on workplace culture where people feel that they just can't speak up. And that whole kind of trust erodes. So unless we build that psychological safe place where we can normalize all of this, when we ignore this is a growing kind of issue, it really fails inclusion. It just totally fails inclusion. So this is what we need to focus on here. Brilliant. And what you just said there, I mean, if we look at the work of Patrick Lencioni, and he talks about in his book, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, trust is at the foundation or the bottom of his pyramid. So if you don't have that trust, if you don't have that psychological safety, then you're going to have a badly performing team because it just builds up resentment. People can't have constructive conflict. You can't have those difficult, awkward conversations that Haley was talking about, you know, the managers that find it difficult to talk about this subject. And there are particular techniques, there's particular best practice guidance on doing this because it's a very sensitive thing and not every woman wants to talk about it. We're not saying that every woman needs to go to their manager and start talking about their symptoms. That's not the case at all. It's knowing how to spot the signs. It's knowing how to have a sensitive conversation. It's all about boundaries. It's about confidentiality. It's aligning that with employment law. It's aligning that with business need, capability, as well as the wellbeing and the mental health side. So it's a fine balance, but it's definitely doable to retain that amazing knowledge that these women during this stage can offer workplaces. So the question that I ask everybody when they come on this podcast is, what does inclusive growth mean for you? Haley, could I come to you first for that one? Sure. For me it's about growing together and not leaving people behind. And I think in particular, that's women who are in midlife and recognizing that menopause support is essential for keeping experienced, talented people in the workplace and making sure that they feel valued and not invisible. Brilliant. Thank you. And Victoria, what's your take on that question? Yeah, I was thinking about this earlier and I think for me it means really creating environments where everyone has a genuine opportunity to thrive, you know, not just on paper but in practice, want to avoid those kind of tick box things. And I think in the context of menopause and mental health, it means acknowledging that our needs change over time, it means building flexibility on how we work and how we lead, how we support one another, you know, recognizing that inclusion isn't just about like who's in the room but about whose experiences are validated and those challenges taken seriously and voices are heard. And within businesses, it's more about diversity metrics, if you like. It's about designing workplaces that understand the human experience, not just one type of human experience. And I think that goes across the board with all of these things that we talk about in inclusion and diversity, isn't it? Whether that's neurodiversity or disability or different stages that different genders go through in their lives. So yeah, it's essential for performance, it's essential for economic reasons, but it's also essential for compassionate duty of care and for our own personal thriving. So when we get it right, everybody really benefits. Brilliant. Well, thank you both for your time today and sharing your knowledge and wisdom. Before we sign off this episode, if the person listening to us right now would like to learn more about what you do, maybe they would like to reach out to you and get your help in supporting people experiencing menopause and also supporting people's mental health at the same time. What should they do? How should they do that? So yeah, Haley and I are both on LinkedIn, obviously Minds That Work and Menospace. So we've got loads of different things around this topic and then all the mental health specialist stuff that I offer as well for the workplace. Yeah, we do run regular tasters on these subjects as well, primarily via LinkedIn. So yeah, it's a matter of emailing, looking at the website, checking us out. Would you agree, Haley? Absolutely, yes. And we do have a specialist course on this intersection of mental health and well-being and menopause, Breaking the Silence, we've called it. So it's an accredited course as well that we've got out there at the moment. Is that detailed on your website as well? Yes, that's on the website, yeah. Brilliant, yeah. So yeah, go to the website, connect on LinkedIn, get involved in the taster sessions and support your employees so that they can thrive. Absolutely. Well, thanks ever so much both of you for joining me today. I've learned a lot from you at the same time. I'm a 40-something year old gay man who hasn't actually learned a lot around menopause, so I've learned a lot from you. So yeah, thank you for sharing that. Thank you for having us. It's a pleasure. That's all right. And thank you for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Show with myself and my guests today, Haley and Victoria. Hopefully you've learned something as well about supporting employees experiencing menopause and really importantly, the intersection between menopause and people's mental health and well-being. We shared some really practical things that you as an employer can do to support people in your workplace. And it really is a no-brainer in terms of supporting those individuals in terms of making sure that they are cared for, that they can be their best selves at work and they're able to perform and do their best job, and you're creating an environment of that psychological safety and inclusion and belonging in the workplace. So if you are interested in investigating this further, then obviously please do reach out to Haley and Victoria through LinkedIn and their websites and go along to their taster sessions and get them into your organization to deliver that training to raise awareness. So thanks ever so much for tuning in and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode, which will be coming up very soon. Take care. Bye-bye. Thank you for listening to the Inclusive Growth Show. For further information and resources from Toby and his team, head on over to our website at mildon.co.uk.