Inclusive Growth Show
I love driving diversity and inclusion at the leadership level. Each week, I host insightful conversations where we explore the journey of inclusive growth, discuss strategies for engaging senior leaders in equity, diversity, and inclusion, and share practical tips to inspire and empower meaningful change.
Inclusive Growth Show
How to Support Neurodivergent Employees and Foster Inclusion
Is your workplace truly inclusive for neurodivergent employees?
In this episode of The Inclusive Growth Podcast, Toby Mildon sits down with Lekshmi Babarajan, a learning and development consultant and neurodiversity coach. Lekshmi shares her personal journey of being diagnosed as neurodivergent later in life and how that experience has shaped her professional path.
Together, Toby and Lekshmi explore the challenges neurodivergent employees face in the workplace, the role of HR in fostering inclusion, and the impact of strengths-based coaching.
Key takeaways:
- The importance of strengths-based approaches in supporting neurodivergent employees.
- How organisations can implement low-cost, high-impact adjustments.
- The role of HR in building inclusive policies for neurodivergent staff.
- Practical tools and technologies that help neurodivergent employees thrive.
- The significance of coaching and safe spaces in empowering neurodivergent individuals.
Guest: Lekshmi Babarajan – Learning & Development Consultant and Neurodiversity Coach.
Connect with Lekshmi on LinkedIn
For more resources on inclusive workplace strategies, visit Mildon.co.uk.
If you're enjoying this episode and looking to boost equity, inclusion, and diversity in your organisation, my team and I are here to help. Our team specialises in crafting data-driven strategies, developing inclusive leaders, designing fair recruitment processes, and enhancing disability confidence. With a blend of professional expertise and lived experience, we're ready to support you on your journey. Reach out to us through our website.
If you want to build a more inclusive workplace that you can be proud of please visit our website to learn more.
Welcome to the Inclusive Growth Show with Toby Mildon Future-proofing your business by creating a diverse workplace.
Speaker 2:Hey there, thank you ever so much for tuning in to this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast. I'm Toby Mildon and today I'm joined by Lakshmi Babarajan, and I'm really excited to sit down and talk to her Because today we're going to be talking about neurodiversity within the workplace. So we'll be talking about her own personal journey as a learning and development specialist and as somebody who then got diagnosed as being neurodivergent and navigating that and her work that she does now around supporting neurodivergent and navigating that and her work that she does now around supporting neurodivergent individuals in the workplace and what you can do to support neurodivergent colleagues. So we're going to learn loads from Lakshmi today, so let's dive straight in. Lakshmi, it's so lovely to see you. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3:Lovely to join you. Thanks for having me, Toby.
Speaker 2:So I just gave a really kind of high level introduction there, but could you just introduce yourself a bit more and about your professional journey within learning and development and your specialisation now as a neurodiversity coach.
Speaker 3:Yes, so I currently work as a freelance learning and development consultant, trainer and coach and my journey into the field of learning and development was very academic. I did a certification course, did a postgraduate level qualification in human resource development, really fell in love with learning through learning and development, through what it can do for an organisation and for people within the organisation and ultimately, organisational performance and impact. So came at it from that very idealistic perspective and really gained a wealth of experience in a range of different and wonderful organisations and sectors to develop my expertise really and increasingly in my coaching practice, which is an area of passion for me. I specialize in neurodiversity coaching and I should really also share at this point. I am neurodivergent myself and, interestingly, professionally I've always found myself drawn to other neurodivergent people, whether it's through sort of work, projects, collaborations and as a coach. What I find is that I can connect, I can empathize and I can support people, my clients, who are neurodivergent in a very natural and very authentic way and I'm able to facilitate safe spaces for that coaching exchange.
Speaker 2:Brilliant, and you mentioned there that you are yourself neurodivergent and I know that when we were planning this episode, that your diagnosis came later in life. So how has your diagnosis influenced your personal and professional life?
Speaker 3:Toby, it's been a journey, and quite a profound one for me. My diagnosis was when I was an adult. I was 29 years old when I was diagnosed, and getting the diagnosis was really an effort on my part. I always felt there was something that was different in how I processed, made sense of, understood and did things. There were things that I struggled with that others didn't seem to find difficult, and there were things that were very obvious and very clear to me that others couldn't see or visualize. So I wanted some answers to those things that I've been struggling with, and dyslexia diagnosis gave me a reason as to why I struggled with some of those things. So for me it was very, very illuminating You'll notice that I say that I'm neurodivergent rather than dyslexic. Illuminating. You'll notice that I say that I'm neurodivergent rather than dyslexic, and for me that's really quite important because neurodivergent conditions manifest in different ways and in a variety of degrees in terms of sort of traits, challenges and strengths. So what I've come to learn and understand is that each individual has a unique profile, even amongst people with the same diagnosis, and I'm very, very mindful of that.
Speaker 3:My own sort of journey post-diagnosis has been a very long one. For many years I didn't know what to make of my assessment. I finally had a diagnosis. It came with a label, and a label at a time when it really wasn't very safe to disclose a neurodivergent diagnosis in the workplace. In fact at the time I was doing my postgraduate in human resource development and was told by a group of essentially 34 HR professionals not to disclose as there would be a risk that I would be discriminated against. And counter to that advice, I did disclose at one of my interviews.
Speaker 3:At the time I was making a shift from a career in the arts and heritage sector into HR and I didn't get the job. And I later found out because one of the people on the panel ended up working with me in another job in another organisation. When I asked they'd actually disclosed that I was discriminated against. The moment that I disclosed my dyslexia diagnosis the recruiting manager had questions and concerns about my capability and I was not taken any further. So I think things have changed and I'm really referencing that because I can see those shifts and changes very tangibly in workplaces. But there's still a way to go. So for a very long time post-diagnosis I didn't talk about it. I certainly didn't feel that I could do so safely, and so I had a dyslexia report. It took me many, many, really many years to really understand. Well, what did the report mean? And it involved me noticing kind of nuances in my condition and really being able to identify strength myself and, as a result of identifying strength, really owning it, you know.
Speaker 2:So, since your diagnosis, what are some of the strategies or tools that have helped you thrive?
Speaker 3:I think, fundamentally, what I'd say is one of the biggest sort of shifts has been a shift in mindset and being able to really understand and utilise a strengths-based approach, which is really about focusing on identifying, developing and leveraging kind of the existing strengths and talents and resources that we all have, rather than what I found myself doing was I was very acutely aware of my weaknesses and deficits and shifting to that strengths-based approach really helped, because it helped me to sort of really identify and build my capabilities. And then for me it was really around getting curious about what was it specifically that I struggled with, you know, noticing that, so that I could really think about the support that I needed to ask for, whether it's from other people or of myself, and I'll give some examples of this. So for me, when I'm in a workplace, when I'm given a task or given a piece of work to do, context is really important and often I found that I was in situations where people would tell me or delegate without providing that context. So my brain really couldn't understand, orientate itself or really move forward. So I would start asking my managers, colleagues, for more context. Could I have some more information I really want to understand and then being confident enough being how do you ask for an adjustment or support from a perspective of strength, because I really want to be able to execute on this for you and I need this bit of information and then also being able to ask for specifics. So sometimes I find that things are just essentially implied, whether it's in a workplace or in personal conversations, and I'd like to call those assumptions out so that I feel like I'm very, very clear in my understanding of what's been asked, because it gives me the confidence then to go and execute.
Speaker 3:Another area that's been really key for me is being able to understand sort of the tools and the technologies that are out there that can really support. So again, that personal curiosity has been key. I'm a very visual person, so the mind mapping software that I've had the opportunity to use over the last few years has been really helpful because it helps me to visualize and connect things, which is naturally the way my mind works and brain works. So for me it's great for brainstorming and idea generating and seeing connections between those ideas, and then I can explore and export that mind map into Word and for me it helps to sequence how I structure any written information or reports. Dragon software has been really important because, whilst I can articulate verbally, translating that into words and text can be a challenge, and so the speech to text capability of Dragon's been really, really helpful.
Speaker 3:I've also been introduced to things like CaptionEdge, so being able to take the pressure off when I'm in a meeting from typing up notes so that I can focus on what's being said and then in the notes highlight the bits that are really pertinent and I want to revisit, has been also a real game changer. I think the other thing I'd say is, again on that curiosity side, being able to understand that actually there are some things that I find very, very easy to do and some things quite challenging. So recognising those challenges and being able to break that down and actually really play about so that I've got some strategies that feel bespoke to the task at hand and to basically the needs of whatever it is I'm doing in the moment, so there's an element of fluidity to those strategies and I think that's come about confidently just through trial and error and being able to be very, very specific about what is it that I need to be doing, what would support in this particular situation?
Speaker 2:So what do you think HR teams should be doing to create more inclusive and accessible workplaces for neurodivergent individuals?
Speaker 3:I would say the first thing is really being able to understand neurodiversity, the fact that we're all different. We all have variations in our brain's function and that affects behaviour. And the big thing I would say is avoid sort of jumping to stereotypes or conclusions of what it means to be a neurodivergent, because each individual's strengths and challenges are unique. I think often organisations and HR professionals can get stuck in terms of sort of thinking about reasonable adjustments. So I'd really encourage them to think about rethink workplace adjustments so the individual needs can really be openly accommodated, because there's a lot that can be done without a huge amount of costs or disruption to organisations and with huge benefits in terms of performance If organisations and HR are able to really think out of the box. And those adjustments can be as simple as flexible working hours and offering sort of remote work options for people. It can be as simple as providing sort of quiet spaces where employees with sort of sensory sensitivities can really sort of dial that down really for focus. It can be as simple as making adjustments in how instructions or tasks are being delegated so there's a real focus on clarity and providing those instructions and tasks in a written format or in really structured workflows. There's a huge amount in terms of sort of ways in which we tend to organise and execute work that can be explored, and I think quite often it's really the capacity and the time for HR and organisations to stop so that they're able to explore and think out of the box.
Speaker 3:I would also really encourage them to think about sort of leveraging the unique skills and talents of neurodivergent individuals, because there's a huge amount of creativity, attention to detail, ability to problem solve and kind of that ability to hyper-focus on tasks that is abundant within individuals that are neurodivergent and it provides opportunities for employees to really rethink what that sort of talent pool looks like and then, based on that, providing opportunities for employees to work in roles and projects that really align with those strengths.
Speaker 3:So I'm again a really big believer in that strengths-based approach and lens. And then, I think, fundamentally gathering feedback from people who are neurodivergent, sort of neurodivergent employees, so that they can understand the experiences and really identify areas for improvement. And quite often I think organizations and HR teams can be quite apprehensive of that, because everyone's busy and resources can often be stretched. But actually, when I mentioned those, reasonable adjustments can be very, very simple and often still yield a real impact for people who are neurodivergent Again those areas for improvements can be fairly simple, but yield big, big differences and opportunities for people who are neurodivergent and experiencing barriers, however small they may be.
Speaker 3:So how would you say that your intersectionality of being a woman of colour and neurodivergent has shaped your experience at work. When I walk into a workplace or into a team meeting, the fact that I'm a woman, the fact that I'm a woman of colour, is visible, it's visually evident and most people can pick that up. And what I find that most people don't pick up is the fact that I'm neurodivergent, because it's a hidden aspect of what I experience and it fundamentally impacts how I see the world, how I experience the world and how I behave in response to it, and that's a big element that's not seen. So it took me a very, very long time again as I mentioned with the diagnosis to be able to talk about my neurodivergence, and part of it is because, as somebody who is from a different background in the UK, I haven't always lived in the UK, I came here from South India and one of my own lessons was in quickly learning how to assimilate and fit into a culture that was fundamentally different, with a different set of rules, a different set of norms to what I was grown up knowing, and partly that came about from bullying and feeling excluded from groups and in society. So the lessons that I'd learned that then inevitably meant that I fit in to UK culture was fundamentally the thing that was holding me back from developing and growing and progressing in my own understanding of my neurodivergence, because I had a fear of disclosing, because it meant standing out and highlighting a difference. So what I would say is I think there are, I experienced a lot of stereotypes, a lot of misunderstandings, and I think the shift for me was when I accepted my own ability to influence the conversation, my experience at work through owning my neurodivergence and finding pools whether it was individual managers or colleagues where I felt safe to disclose, and then asking for that support so that I was able to tangibly build on my confidence and demonstrate my abilities at work.
Speaker 3:I think there's still huge amounts of stereotyping and misunderstandings. There can be a lot of misunderstandings around neurodivergent behaviours. It can be misinterpreted through essentially, lens where you're looking at sort of a neurotypical person or a neurotypical behavior and thinking, well, why is this person different? Rather than kind of coming at it from a curiosity perspective or really asking the person, and that can lead to a huge amount of exclusion, whether it's from opportunities to network or for growth, for development within workplaces. So being able to secure those accommodations, being able to advocate for myself has been not easy but a really valuable experience in kind of owning my experience as a woman, a woman of colour and somebody nearer to a virgin in the workplace and really kind of like flipping the script as to the narrative of what that experience might typically mean as to the narrative of what that experience might typically mean.
Speaker 2:So why do you believe that coaching is particularly effective for neurodivergent individuals and, as a coach yourself, how have you adapted your methods to support people?
Speaker 3:I think coaching is particularly effective for neurodivergent individuals because it provides personalized, tailored support to meet unique needs, strengths and goals. As a coach, I focus on understanding each person's specific experiences and designing strategies that align with their personal growth goals and challenges. As someone neurodivergent my own experience and I hear this from other people who are neurodivergent as well we often focus on the things that we're challenged with rather than the things that we're good at and our natural strengths. So in my coaching practice I really help people to identify and amplify those strengths, empowering them to utilize it in their professional and personal lives.
Speaker 3:I disclosed earlier, toby, that my diagnosis was when I was 29.
Speaker 3:So by then I'd already had some really established and deep-rooted ideas about myself and my abilities and I didn't consciously go about developing those.
Speaker 3:It was quietly kind of rooting itself.
Speaker 3:So in the coaching space, a fantastic opportunity to really explore some of those beliefs that we might have unconsciously developed through experiences within educational institutions, work institutions that were necessarily not geared for people who are neurodivergent.
Speaker 3:In my practice I also introduce tools and techniques to manage some challenges that our neurodivergent people typically face, whether that be from time management, whether that's expanding and really kind of developing tools for effective communication skills, reducing sort of stress and managing that sensory overload and anxiety that can come often when you're in environments that might not necessarily again be geared to supporting neurodivergent people and of course, to supporting neurodivergent people and of course, practical interventions can really enhance and support sort of that long-term functioning and success at work for people who are neurodivergent. So it's essentially a game changer and I think I'd go back to creating safe spaces for people who are neurodivergent to really unmask and to explore their strengths and to lean into developing new strategies so they can go back into workplaces and start to advocate for themselves and start applying some of those tools and strategies that are unique for them and their challenges. I think it's fundamentally transformative.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. One thing I'm taking away from this conversation is the need to really focus on our strengths, and I know when I worked in corporate life, you would sit down with your manager and you'd have your reviews and they would go you know what are you good at, what are your strengths? And then it'd be like OK, so what are the areas for development? Development and um, I I always thought it was a bit strange that you know. I think obviously you know I'm a big fan of personal growth, learning new skills and things like that. But I think actually within the workplace, you should probably focus on your strengths, double down on those and and actually get the benefit of the whole team working together, because every, if everybody in the team is focusing on their own strengths, then collectively you're more of a powerful unit, I think, than trying to kind of close the gap on things that you're not very good at or that you don't enjoy doing 100% and just building on that.
Speaker 3:When I made the shift from working in the arts and heritage sector, I used to work in project management and audience development. When I worked on projects, my approach was really straightforward. I used to think well, I have a me, so in my project team, I want different ideas and personalities and perspectives, because I could see the clear benefits of that. However, I appreciate that not every environment and not everybody necessarily thinks that way, but there are huge benefits for that.
Speaker 3:I think something that came to me as you were sharing was the need for an expanded definition of what strengths are and what talent is. Essentially, I think it's human and very natural to want to compare ourselves and I try and catch myself as I'm doing it to remind myself the only comparison is my own growth or my developments, or a comparison of me today or me of 10, 5 years ago to me now and recognising that I'm on a journey and I've grown and developed. So comparing old me to new me has been useful and helpful in focusing my attentions on all the things that I can do to grow and change really. But that definition piece I think really key, and also when we catch ourselves and each other behaving in ways where we're assuming, and therefore falling into a default pattern, to nudge and to challenge that in helpful ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what does inclusive growth mean for you? This is a question I ask everybody when they come on this podcast.
Speaker 3:I'm going to answer this from a very personal interpretation, and probably a professional one as well as an L&D person. For me, growth and learning go hand in hand, and our conversation today has been really rooted in an understanding that we're all different. If we can appreciate each other's strengths and challenges and that those strengths and challenges are unique for each and every one of us, that those strengths and challenges are unique for each and every one of us, I think it really then focuses us on. You know what does learning and growth look like from different perspectives? So inclusive growth for me is about creating equitable access to learning and development. So in one way, that can look like opportunities where everyone can participate in learning and development. It can also look like really understanding, so that we can remove the barriers to learning for people, and providing access, let's say, for marginalized groups, so that they have opportunities again, as I mentioned, to learning and development. Some of this also means customizingised learning approaches and experiences that cater to different styles and different needs of people and providing flexible options. So when I think about flexible options, I'm thinking about things like self-paced or on-demand learning, providing accessibility features such as, maybe, subtitles or translations tools. We've talked about this before around the focus on diverse strengths and I've mentioned, I think it's so important that we really expand our definitions of strengths and that different strengths really can play a key role, depending on the context, you know. And so I think the other area when we think about sort of inclusive growth is and recognition, the environment's very important. So providing safe spaces to learn and to experiment and a word that I've really come to make peace with, which is to fail, which is such a core part of learning and growth, and to fail without judgment is so core, and that's from an organizational and from an individual perspective, I think. And then, of course, I think, an element of inclusive career development, understanding that tailored learning paths for unique career aspirations and unique goals are really key, because not everybody has the same goals or aspirations. We're all wired differently. We'll have different goals.
Speaker 3:I remember being in the workplace, encouraged very much to climb some hierarchical ladder that I had no interest in climbing. Toby, my brain was always wired for that specialist lens. I wanted to occupy a space where I was developing my skills, my toolkit, my expert knowledge and really thinking about ways to be able to add value in an organization, and it certainly didn't fit some sort of hierarchical career progression. So for me, when I think about career development, I think about all the managers that encouraged me to expand my definitions and understanding and encouraged me to take sideways steps or squiggly steps in my own career growth. So I think that's an important element as well, and just as I've even summarised that we've just talked about so many different elements, you know it's such a broad, broad definition that requires a lot of challenge and and curiosity in how we define quite a lot of this really so that it's as open and as inclusive for different perspectives as possible.
Speaker 2:What would you say is one action that the person listening to us right now could take back to their organisation to better support neurodivergent colleagues in their team?
Speaker 3:What comes to mind as you ask me that question is an experience I had this year. I was doing a course on neurodiversity and coaching and one of the delegates on the course said I mean it was a course over several months and one of our consolidation sessions. This individual said it's been really humbling hearing about the perspectives of people who are neurodivergent and to have the space to think about what that experience might have been like. And I think that that feed into how I answer this question, which is how are we, if we don't have a direct experience, how on earth are we as individuals, meant to empathize and understand some of the barriers and some of the actual experiences of people that might be different from us? So I would really encourage now this individual had the opportunity through this course that we were attending and the way in which the course was structured to have different opportunities to engage with different people, gain different insights, perspectives, build their knowledge and reflect. So I'd really encourage people to do that for themselves, outside of the context of that particular course, by getting curious, educate yourself, get a better understanding of what neurodiversity is, what it means to be neurodivergent and what some of those neurodivergent conditions can feel like for people with those experiences.
Speaker 3:Check that by having dialogues with people, getting curious about what it's like for people who are neurodivergent. What's their experience like? What are some of the barriers that they face? What are some of the strengths that they've identified in themselves? What's really helped, you know, because I think I love to talk about all the managers or the colleagues or the fantastic environments I've helped, that have helped me to thrive, that have encouraged and developed me. So I'm sure people will want to share their experiences of what's really nurtured them and then to be able to think about, you know, breaking it down to that individual level. Think about from an individual perspective, what can they do in their day-to-day conversations and in their day-to-day actions to really kind of edge towards more inclusive practices and exchanges.
Speaker 2:Brilliant Well, lakshmi. Thank you ever so much for joining me today. It's been really wonderful to sit down with you and talk about neurodiversity within the workplace. I think some of the key things that I've taken away is really the need to focus on our strengths and the fact that, even with your kind of later in life diagnosis, you've actually identified a whole number of strategies and tools and assistive technologies that can help you and, I think, for anybody working in HR. It's about supporting individuals who are neurodivergent to navigate that themselves using coaching, because that's very powerful, of course but working with those neurodivergent individuals to help them identify what strategies and tools would work for them as well, so that they can play to their strengths.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I think you've summarised that beautifully. Thank you, Toby.
Speaker 2:You're very welcome. So, yeah, thanks for joining me and thank you for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast with Vekshmi and myself. Hopefully you found that really interesting and you've taken away some ideas that you could start to discuss and implement within your own organisation. If there's anything that I can do to support you on your journey to becoming an inclusive organisation, please do look at my website, mildencouk, and you can also connect with Lakshmi on LinkedIn, so I'll make sure that her LinkedIn URL is included in the show notes so that you can easily follow her work and connect with her. So, thanks for tuning in and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode, which will be coming up very soon. Until then, take care of yourself, bye-bye.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Inclusive Growth Show For further information and resources from Toby and his team.