Inclusive Growth Show

How to Create Lasting Change in Workplace Culture and Inclusive Leadership

• Episode 151

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How can organisations create meaningful change that lasts?

In this episode of The Inclusive Growth Show, host Toby Mildon is joined by Pritesh Patel, a Learning and Development professional at Colt Technologies. Together, they explore the challenges of workplace culture, inclusive leadership, and how to embed sustainable change in organisations.

Pritesh shares his personal and professional experiences, highlighting the importance of community, active listening, and psychological safety. He also delves into the resistance to change and how leaders can foster a culture of learning and accountability.

Key takeaways:

  • Why slowing down leads to better decision-making in leadership.
  • The role of psychological safety in encouraging open conversations.
  • How to measure and develop inclusive leadership.
  • Practical ways to navigate difficult conversations in the workplace.
  • The impact of employee engagement on long-term organisational growth.

If you want to create an inclusive and high-performing organisation, this episode is packed with insights and strategies to help you take action.

🔗 Connect with Pritesh Patel on LinkedIn
🔗 Learn more about Toby’s work at: mildon.co.uk

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If you're enjoying this episode and looking to boost equity, inclusion, and diversity in your organisation, my team and I are here to help. Our team specialises in crafting data-driven strategies, developing inclusive leaders, designing fair recruitment processes, and enhancing disability confidence. With a blend of professional expertise and lived experience, we're ready to support you on your journey. Reach out to us through our website. 

If you want to build a more inclusive workplace that you can be proud of please visit our website to learn more.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Inclusive Growth Show with Toby Mildon Future-proofing your business by creating a diverse workplace.

Speaker 2:

Hey there, thank you ever so much for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast. I'm Toby Mildon and today I'm joined by one of my clients called Pritesh, and Pritesh works for a technology company that I've been working with some time now. They're called Cult, and today we're going to be talking about how we can really affect positive change with regards to equity, diversity and inclusion. So, pritesh, lovely to see you. Could we begin by you introducing yourself to the person listening to us right now? Can you just let us know about your background, what drives you and what connects you to EDI activities?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, thank you, toby, for inviting me today. I'm really excited to be here. I'm Pritesh Patel. I'm part of the learning development team here at Colt. My background is pretty varied. I'm not your typical learning and development professional. I don't have degrees and qualifications.

Speaker 3:

I worked in sales for many years and fell into L&D completely by accident. It was a going away from sales and looking for a new passion and felt that skills that I have, the strengths I have around communication and working with people, was a natural fit to move into learning and development. In terms of my strengths and my passions, I really like working and developing people. When I was in sales, I loved working with my customers and helping them realize value, and it's the same thing as an internal support function. It's about working with my internal customers and trying to find how I can add value and deliver success for them. In terms of my purpose and motivation, a lot of it's down to me being a bit of a people pleaser. I seem to get a lot of satisfaction from external recognition. So where I can add value and support and people say thank you, that's really meaningful to me.

Speaker 3:

The connection with the EDI space I feel there is so much noise and information out there and there is such a disconnect in the real world. You've got an agenda which every organization is trying to drive, but then people on the ground feel really conflicted. People feel as if some of these strategies are actually negatively impacting them and again, a strong strength of mine is around harmony. I want to bring companies together. I want to bring my colleagues together so we can all understand the value that we can get, because the e is for equity and that's for all of us, and some of us just need to sit back and realize that there is some value there and that I feel as if that's my role to to share that message brilliant.

Speaker 2:

Based on previous conversations that we've had, community is really important for you. Could you just share some sort of personal stories or experiences that that sparked this interest for you?

Speaker 3:

yeah, I um. As a young person I spent most of my free time playing cricket or football or rounders or any sport that was available at school or at a local level. So being a part of teams was second nature to me, growing up and becoming an adult and realizing how complex these things are. Looking at the world today, where I personally feel we have a bit of a pollution of our mindset, where everybody's focused very much on themselves and community is the smallest part of their network or the smallest area of their focus, I feel we've lost touch with some of our kind of tribal community nature and that's why I want to challenge and push each other.

Speaker 3:

I notice this when I'm talking to people. I find these days many people just don't have the listening skills or the empathy and get very frustrated because they feel misunderstood. So it's multiple areas of my own community where I'm seeing a bit of a disconnect and people kind of falling out of traditions and values that we've always had. People that I work with on the ground that just don't seem to have any empathy and feel very frustrated and feel kind of victim-minded. And how to kind of just shift them by realizing that we get through this together, we get through this by understanding other perspectives. So recently I've been reading a lot around capitalism, communism, and again I'm feeling as if there's something in our society as well that we want to promote the individual, we want to celebrate the single person, and actually it's a team of people that deliver these results and deliver success. And how can we shift that mindset as well is also important to me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you've touched on a couple of things. You mentioned the skill of active listening and empathy, and empathy is so important. We've talked about empathy loads on this podcast with other guests and it's one of those inclusive leadership behaviors that we can actually measure. It's one of those inclusive leadership behaviors that we can actually measure.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if you've ever come across a tool called Perceptions, which is developed by a team of occupational psychologists over at Allergy, and they did a project with the Metropolitan Police in London and they identified six crucial behaviors of being an inclusive leader, and empathy is one of those behaviors that we like to track and measure. And actually, as you're describing your personal motivation for community and bringing people together, it really reminds me of another tool that we use called the Game Changing Index, which was developed by Dr John Mervyn Smith and his business partner, nathan, and they identified five psychological profiles that really energize us for making an impact, and the one at the core of their framework is called the Playmaker, and these are people that are really energized by bringing people together, building consensus within teams. So I think, um, if we were to do the assessment, uh with with you, I think you would come out as a strong playmaker.

Speaker 3:

That, that's my hunch yeah, I'd love to test that. I I think this is something that we don't do enough of is sitting back and really understanding who we are, what drives us. There is no perfect way of working, but we could all benefit from just looking inward and understanding. What are my strengths? What is a natural thing for me to do? What can I do 12 16 hours a day? What is going to take me some? What is something that I'm only prepared to give one hour a day to? And one of the challenges and one of the passions is around leadership development. For me, um, it's something I'm I've been wanting to to impact for a number of years, and my new role at colt is going to be focusing around supporting managers and developing their the culture and enabling managers to be more successful as well. So, yeah, we'll. We'll tap into you again, toby, for some more information on these profiles, for sure.

Speaker 2:

Brilliant. So I don't know how you feel about this, but I think you know. Do you feel that we live in a world where people are very quick to judge, and do you think it's important that we slow down and reflect?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely To the previous point, a typical situation that I encounter with some of my family and friends. When things go wrong, I will often hear people say things like they have. This person has done x to me because they think this. My very next question is what makes you think they think that? What evidence do you have that they think this? Why do you think people are so motivated to bring you down in the modern world that don't think that really happens? We're all too caught up in our own pressures and our own challenges to really understand the impact we create on other people. Yet we all quickly rush to this person is doing this to me when more often than not, they're just doing it for themselves.

Speaker 3:

I was really fortunate a number of years ago to work with an external organization on mediation and they asked me a very important question, which is do you think people who do the wrong things know they're doing the wrong things? And I kind of sat there for a second and I thought to myself no, if they actually thought what they were doing was wrong, they wouldn't do it. They will have some sort of justification, some sort of rationale as to why I need to commit this crime, be this person do this illegal activity, there is a reason. We don't want to look at what the reasons are. We would rather just look at the outcome or look at what they've done. So yeah, I I really have found slowing down being a really important skill for me.

Speaker 3:

I think, naturally, I'm very good in change. I'm very good off the cuff. However, you overplay that strength, it becomes a weakness. Slowing down, reflecting, just pausing for a moment, actually helps me make a plan, be more strategic, be more empathetic and then actually deliver meaningful, productive solutions. So slowing down is really really important.

Speaker 3:

And again, in the organizational setting as well. Many organizations want to change the way that they work. There needs to be a pace when it comes to change, but how much time actually is set aside to reflect, evaluate, understand what's actually happened, look at points of failure, look at points of success, try to do some sort of ROI work and then go and pick the solutions or the strategies for the for the future year? Typically, it's just down to have. We hit the number. Yes, we'll do that same thing again and we need to do more and we need to grow. So in the workplace I definitely feel as if there is a lot of pace required, but that's the wrong thing. If we want to speed up, we need to slow down a bit. We need to learn from some of the lessons that we've had and then effectively put the future strategy in place.

Speaker 2:

What are some of the practical things that you've done that helps you slow down?

Speaker 3:

The first thing is being conscious of it.

Speaker 3:

So in many conversations I get really excitable and I want to communicate as quickly as possible and play on my strengths.

Speaker 3:

So first of all, it's using the technology, so some of the tools that we have, like Microsoft Teams. It has things like a speaker coach. It will tell you when you're speaking too quickly, and that for me, just flags up every three minutes in a call slow down, you're speaking too quickly. And that, for me, just flags up every three minutes in a call slow down, you're speaking too quickly. And it reminds me that I'm in the people-pleasing mode. I'm in the mode of wanting to say yes and I just need to take a breath. So I use the technology to warn me when I'm going too quickly For me. That gives me a trigger. Just take a breath, because it is as simple as just taking a nice long breath, and then I can just be more conscious of what I'm saying, think about things in a much broader sense, which is very important in learning and development in hr, and then come up with the relevant answers and solutions yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2:

I think as human beings, we do have a tendency to want to act quickly rather than take our time. It's something that I talk about in the unconscious bias training that I do, and I use the SEEDS model that was created by the Neuroleadership Institute, and one of the E in SEEDS is an expediency bias, and this is where we have a preference for wanting to act quickly rather than taking our time, and we tend to take shortcuts, and so they recommend that the, I suppose like the antidote to expediency bias is to slow down. It's easier said than done, but other clients have shared with me some really practical things like taking a walk around the block at lunchtime, delaying a decision until the next day. You don't necessarily need to get back to your manager at 5pm, you could go home, sleep on it and then get back to them at 8 o'clock in the morning, and that just gives you a few hours to kind of sleep on it and let your unconscious work on it, and so, yeah, those are some of the things I've heard.

Speaker 3:

I think that that the point you just made there is so important. I do a lot of work with teams around their personality profiles. Disappointingly, many of the if you're familiar with the disc profiling tool, um, the d, I, s, c the kind of four, four dominant personality types. A lot of leaders are in the driver or the conscientiousness space either good at getting results delivered, good in the detail, but you don't see leaders who are really in the S space, much more reflective, much more supportive of employees. When I run these exercises, we get to a point where the extroverted types, the high energy, let's get stuff done are the majority in the room. And when we talk about a typical team meeting, the last five minutes of a team meeting is what are the actions, what are the next steps? And, to your point, when you've got more detail-oriented individuals, people who really consider the impact on the community, on the team team, they will want time to decompress, to analyze that information and then give you an amazing solution. But you just need to give them 12 to 24 hours.

Speaker 3:

However, common working practices are oh, we've only got five minutes left for the meeting. Quickly, what are the actions? And who's going to own them? And guess what? The people who put their hands up the extroverted, the actions and who's going to own them. And guess what? The people who put their hands up, the extroverted, the kind of louder types, will own all the actions, will take all the decisions, and you're not getting the opportunity to get that deep, rich, considered idea which takes time to formulate. So I work with a lot of teams and push them to get away from last five minutes of a meeting. What are the actions? No, we're finishing the meeting today. We can reflect on what we've discussed, we can set an agenda of when we're going to review the actions and we put in a safe kind of framework of nothing will be agreed or decided and allocated for at least 24 hours, because that's what we all need to do as strategic leaders yeah, and I I would also argue that actually preparing for the meeting is equally important.

Speaker 2:

So giving people an agenda up front with some really incisive questions helps them come to the meeting prepared. They can kind of formulate their thoughts or their ideas before you're sat in a room together.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. It can be quite frustrating, especially when I work with sales teams as well and I don't see agendas. It makes me very concerned in terms of how are you preparing your customers for your meetings and engagements if you're not preparing agendas and you're not setting people up to succeed? I think this is such an important point. But there is also individual ownership. How often do we agree to a meeting without an agenda? We've also got to put that person on the spot. We get a meeting invite, happy to meet with you. What's the aim, what's the objective? What do I need to prepare for? There's also something we can do for that for sure, definitely.

Speaker 2:

Can we talk about change now? Because I know you've got lots of experience working in change management and affecting change within organizations, and something that we've discussed before is about why people are resistant towards change when it's kind of put upon them. Why, why do you think there might be a contradiction between people wanting to change, wanting something better for themselves, but then resisting it at the same time?

Speaker 3:

This is a really difficult one because I'm very emotional about this subject, so it might come across in a little bit of a negative way here, but I feel as if people are very happy to to talk about their dreams, their passions and what they want to do, but they're not prepared to go through the difficulty of actually getting it done. It's very easy to talk about a dream, but it's not so easy to actually take the first step and be present and and go through with that. There are a couple reasons why I think that could be the case. From my opinion, I think in society today we want to be recognized and we value and we elevate the doers, people that get stuff done, the people that deliver success and value. These are just the people that that show that they're completing activities. And because there is a bias, I think, towards the achievers. If we are looking at change or a development for ourselves and we're going to potentially fail for a long time before we can succeed, that's pretty intimidating because no one says thank you and well done for failing.

Speaker 3:

Organizations that I can read about and I've been a part of constantly look for a growth mindset and want to be innovative. Yet I sit in department meetings, I sit in big company broadcasts. I never hear them talk about their failures. I never hear them talk about the lessons that they've learned. Everything is a look at this success, look at this, this achievement, how well we've done something. Let's celebrate our successes. So I think we change. The problem is we're always celebrating success. People want to fast track them and just jump into success. They don't realize that there are going to be multiple failures before they get to a success. And then, as I said, what I perceive is in the modern world, we're not celebrating failure. You know we're not.

Speaker 2:

We're not able to let people be vulnerable, be their genuine self and then build themselves up from there yeah, there's also something about a culture of failure in companies, because when I worked for the bbc, I worked with a creative director who actually encouraged us to make mistakes and to learn from failure, because he said that if we don't make mistakes, if we don't get things wrong, then we're not going to learn, we're not going to grow, we're not going to come up with creative, innovative things for the digital real estate that we were developing. But he was creating that culture within the user experience and design team that failure was okay, that making mistakes was fine.

Speaker 3:

I absolutely agree.

Speaker 3:

I was having a conversation with our chief people officer at the Christmas party the other day. One of the areas that kind of came up for me was around every organization wants their employees to be empowered and will do lots of work around listening circles and giving people a chance to vent or skip level meetings, giving a chance to to openly communicate about what's going on or what their concerns are. But we need to take a couple of steps back. We need to create an environment where people feel comfortable and safe to raise their head above the water and make these challenges, make these complaints, and I feel as if it's where managers are able to really just listen, have that high level of empathy, take on your challenges, take on your points and then be prepared to close that feedback loop Again.

Speaker 3:

I think far too often people raise concerns through their leadership line challenges to change, challenges to what we're trying to do, trying to embrace the change but they don't get the right messaging back. So there's something there for leaders where how am I actually supported by employees? How am I encouraging them to fail? How am I encouraging them to raise these difficult points and challenges so we can achieve a high level of success? Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

So one of the projects that we did for you at Cult was we delivered a workshop called Help. I'm Scared of Saying the Wrong Thing and I know that there's been lots of conversations around how language is training and the perception of diversity, equity, inclusion, and particularly around how we navigate difficult subjects like talking about privilege, for example, or how we address power dynamics within an organisation. What shifts have you noticed, you know, with your kind of professional L&D hat on, and how do you think these trends are impacting intrusivity?

Speaker 3:

I think first of all, there is a growing sense of apathy I'm noticing with certain demographics the more experienced, the more tenured. You are noticing that some individuals feel as if they've been beaten down by the system that they're working within. And when there was a shift and I think that shift first started with PC culture, which then moved into kind of the ENI or DE&I space At that time it felt as if it was all about avoiding the wrong language, making sure we say the right thing, not necessarily behaving and systematically looking at how we approach inclusivity, equity, inclusion. That was definitely a shift. I felt as if, during the time where it was about what we said, not about what we did, it limited people's education. It limited the opportunities and abilities for individuals just to be honest and be themselves and be open-minded and have high levels of empathy and learn from their mistakes. They felt as if they were playing a game. Well, not necessarily a game, but playing a role. They had a kind of status symbol. They had a, a view that they had to create, which is them, you know, a good corporate citizen. So that's what they did. What I think is happening now is, in good organizations, people are being challenged to create an environment that really allows people to thrive, that has that psychological safety, that gives every individual the opportunity to say dumb things and learn from it. And if you've got good leaders, where you've genuinely got the right mindset, you're not going to have any problems saying the wrong thing. Best example of that, actually, I think, is outside of the working world, and I'd label it as council culture.

Speaker 3:

During 2019, 2020, 2021, everybody seemed to be getting cancelled. Everybody was worried of being cancelled in the public domain. Fast track into 2024, the people that have been shouting about being cancelled are still shouting about being cancelled. Guess what? You've not been cancelled. You can say whatever you want to say. People will hold you accountable for that. People will either check in or check out with you cancelled. Guess what? You've not been cancelled. You can say whatever you want to say. People will hold you accountable for that. People will either check in or check out with you. Based on that and I think society has learned from that there is no such thing as cancer culture. Say what you want. The worst thing to do is not own and really believe what you say, and I think that's a change I'm seeing in my organization. People are becoming much more purposeful, a lot of focus on being your own self, and therefore there's no harm in making the mistake, because you'll get some feedback and you'll know better for next time yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 2:

What are some practical things that you would recommend organizations or individuals could take to create more impactful, lasting change in their organization?

Speaker 3:

this is really difficult because I think it's quite simple, but it's difficult to execute because things are only going to change if they, if they change everywhere at the same time. So there needs to be this holistic approach, starting with our leaders, starting with and holding the senior leadership down to the most junior employee accountable to the same standard. I feel sometimes, based on your reputation, your status in an organization, you get a little bit more leeway because you're a successful individual, you have a proven track record, you deliver value for the company, versus individuals who haven't. We need to manage them. I think we're now realizing that culture is really difficult to build and really quick to break. So you've got to come at it with a holistic view. You've got to take the time to think about how you want to build this strategy.

Speaker 3:

I do believe in this instance you have to take a top-down approach.

Speaker 3:

It starts with your leaders fully embracing it, fully owning it, and then actually them taking the mantle of training and development through the organization, not then subcontracting that work to people like me, as much as I'm paid to do it and I love doing it.

Speaker 3:

That message is far more powerful and more impactful if it comes from my boss or my boss's boss or the ultimate leader in the organization. So we have to have a holistic view. There has to be strong ownership right at the top, and then we've also got to start amplifying and shouting about those local areas of success, because on the ground there are some amazing individuals that fight so hard to create a difference and often they can get lost because they don't do it for the success, they don't do it for the recognition, they do it for their community, they do it for a purpose and often they can be hidden and lost. And that's who we need to celebrate. We've got to start at the top. We've got to celebrate the individuals that are actually making meaningful difference, and we've also got to take the time to understand what they've gone through, because, again, taking some of the previous conversation, they would have failed a lot before they succeeded. We only seem to want to talk about how they've succeeded.

Speaker 2:

We don't talk enough about how they failed before they've succeeded as well yeah, and I think when people talk openly and with vulnerability about their failures, that that's quite endearing to other people. I think it it does give other people confidence that they can actually do it as well. But they're only human. But you know they're not, they're not always perfect. So what does inclusive growth mean for you?

Speaker 3:

this is a really difficult question because I mean, I've been getting ary on it, so be. Because for me there is a challenge, because we need to grow in a way that is inclusive, that is going to help the majority. However, to successfully and effectively grow, it has to be tailored to the individual. So inclusive growth for me is about helping every person get what they need to be able to grow. Because a business is like a kind of apologies for the analogies and metaphors but to me it's like a chain and it's not about the strongest element of the chain that's going to give it strength, it's the weakest element of the chain that can make it weak and break. And that's where I think growth is is aligned.

Speaker 3:

We, from an lnd perspective, we have a development strategy, a development plan. It's designed to affect the masses, but actually when we work with individuals on an individual basis and we tailor the, the support, to them, we create the right environment, we create the right mindset, the right behaviors, and that then becomes a snowballing effect and therefore more and more people can can tap into that behavior and more and more people grow. So inclusive growth is is working really hard to get away from treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself. No, take the time to find out how others need to be treated, how others need to be supported, and work damn hard to support them to grow.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely brilliant. Now, the final question I want to leave with you is is there a particular challenge or action that you would like to leave with the person listening to us right now, the challenge or action that I'm really struggling with personally is and in my professional environment, of leadership development.

Speaker 3:

I'm really disappointed at the level of leaders that represent us in the modern world, from government leaders to senior business leaders, in terms of the big brands and the big organizations. They have some awful behaviors and do not ever seem to collaborate, and I talk mainly about governments here. These are the people that are leading our nations, yet all that we see of them is bickering and arguing and point scoring from each other. You're meant to be representing the whole country. You're meant to be bringing us together, yet I fear, as if you're dividing us more and more and more. We all push our leaders to be more collaborative, to shout about each of the successes, to drive the lasting change and value that we need in our society, instead of really only caring about their own demographics, their constituencies, their voters.

Speaker 3:

So, yeah, my challenge or action that I'd like to take is for us to hold our leaders accountable. I often write to my MPs and they've started ignoring me, and that's frustrating. Maybe I should look at my style and tone and maybe be less sarcastic. That's probably why. But how can we all work together and celebrate each other, because I feel as if today, there is enough of us dividing each other, and if our leaders are doing it, what hope do we have as a society of coming together?

Speaker 2:

excellent. Let's leave that with the listener. So I think the call to action is how can we develop that kind of leadership within organisations as well, not just kind of looking at the political landscape, but within companies? How can we develop those kind of leaders that build that community, that have that real sense of purpose?

Speaker 3:

yeah, absolutely um, I had a conversation in last week where somebody was very disappointed with something that's going on not in my workplace, this is an external workplace and they started talking about the departments that were all failing and I just felt where are you getting this from? How are you not appreciating that An organization is a system, it's an organism. You need every single part. Sales is not more important than delivery teams or HR. If you talk about the most critical function, I think payroll is the most critical function, because if people don't get paid, they're not going to come to work. So we've got to get out of this blaming of the department, blaming of their areas for our failings, and actually look at what have we achieved collectively, what have we failed at collectively and what are we going to do differently.

Speaker 2:

Well, thanks, pritesh, for joining me today and just have a conversation about. You know how you're affecting change and how you're creating the right culture in organizations and how we can hold leadership accountable and things like that. So it's always good to hear your wisdom and your experiences. Thank you.

Speaker 3:

Toby, it's a pleasure speaking to you and working with you and your team. Again, I've picked up so much valuable insights from yourself and, yeah, the broader team as well. So, thank, thank you so much and thank you for all your support with with colt yeah, you're very welcome.

Speaker 2:

You're very welcome, um, and thank you for tuning into listening, uh, to this episode with pratesh and myself. Um, hopefully you found our conversation interesting. Maybe it's given you some insights or ideas or things that you can just take away and start applying in your own organization where you work. Before we go. If the person listening to us now, pritesh, wants to connect with you, what's the best way of doing that?

Speaker 3:

You can find me on LinkedIn. It's Pritesh Patel. I work for Cult Technologies and you'll find me there. I work for Cult Technologies and you'll find me there.

Speaker 2:

Brilliant Thanks, pitesh, and, as always, if there's anything that I can do to support your team, then feel free to reach out to me through my website, mildencouk. Until next time. The next episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast will be coming out very soon and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Take care, bye-bye.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to the Inclusive Growth Show. For further information and resources from Toby and his team, head on over to our website at mildencouk.