From Values to Action: Inclusive Leadership Lessons with Kate Waterfall Hill

Are you leading intentionally or just managing?

In this engaging episode of The Inclusive Growth Show, host Toby Mildon welcomes leadership expert Kate Waterfall Hill. Kate, known for her humorous TikTok alter ego Linda, shares her insights on how leaders can move beyond superficial values to truly embody inclusivity in their organisations.

Key takeaways from this episode include:

• The power of coaching as a leadership tool to enable inclusive growth.
• Why leaders must align their actions with their values to foster trust and engagement.
• A practical framework for blending leadership, management, and coaching.
• The critical role of empathy in inclusive leadership.
• Strategies for being an intentional leader and running effective meetings.

Kate also introduces her latest book, How to Lead, designed as an accessible, everyday guide for leaders at all levels. Tune in for actionable advice and fresh perspectives on leadership and inclusivity.

Visit Kate’s Website for additional resources and support.

If you're enjoying this episode and looking to boost equity, inclusion, and diversity in your organisation, my team and I are here to help. Our team specialises in crafting data-driven strategies, developing inclusive leaders, designing fair recruitment processes, and enhancing disability confidence. With a blend of professional expertise and lived experience, we're ready to support you on your journey. Reach out to us through our website. 

If you want to build a more inclusive workplace that you can be proud of please visit our website to learn more.

Chapters

• 0:01 Embodying Values in Leadership
• 12:49 Leadership
• 18:01 Intentional Leadership and Inclusive Growth
• 25:29 Empowering Inclusive Leadership

Transcript

Speaker 1: Welcome to the Inclusive Growth Show with Toby Mildon, future proofing your business by creating a diverse workplace.

Toby Mildon: Hey there, thank you ever so much for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast. I'm Toby Mildon, and today I'm joined by Kate Waterfall Hill. And I am so excited to be sitting down and talking with Kate today because I actually came across Kate on TikTok and she's got this alter ego called Linda and Kate is not your usual, or not your typical leadership coach. And so through her alter ego, she kind of explains how not to be a good leader, I suppose, or how not to be a good manager. So really looking forward to sitting down with Kate today. And obviously with Kate's expertise around leadership, she's also really interested or she's done lots of work around equality, diversity, and inclusion, which is what we talk about here on this podcast. So it's really good to catch up with her. So Kate, thanks ever so much for joining me today. It's lovely to see you.

Kate Waterfall Hill: Great to see you as well. Thanks for having me Toby.

Toby Mildon: So Kate, obviously that was just a really high level intro, but would you mind introducing yourself a bit further and just sharing with us about how you got into your current leadership role that you're doing and your interest in equity, diversity and inclusion? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: Sure. I got into leadership like most people accidentally they're lots of accidental managers who don't necessarily set out that way. I joined a marketing agency straight from university and within six months was made an account manager. So I had an account exec reporting to me. And then very quickly I was on the board. And then by the time I was 29, I was actually the managing director of the agency. And we had some really, big clients. We had Virgin and Vodafone and Elon and Ford and yeah, lots of really big brands that you'd know of. And by the time I left there, there was about 60 people. And I left in 2007 to set up on my own as a small business management consultant and worked alongside a number of CEO founders who were running small and mid-size, mostly agencies and consultancies again, and helping them be really good leaders and also have run efficient organizations that were profitable.

Kate Waterfall Hill: And that's the long and short of it. They were commercial organizations. So I then decided to pivot to leadership coaching because I was just fascinated in particularly the aspect of nurturing talent and having leaders who could inspire others to elevate their performance, but also leaders who would enjoy being a leader because sometimes it can feel a bit like a burden and I think it should actually feel like a privilege and be enjoyable and good fun. And also to inspire others to enjoy their jobs because we spend so much time at work and so many people I've now found out since doing my Linda, the bad manager character, people write to me all the time saying to me how miserable they are at work because of how they're treated by their manager. So we have a, I suppose a duty of care to our people to, help them not feel like they're working in a toxic environment. And so, yeah, so to that end I'm now focusing on leadership coaching much absolutely. I love hearing the stories and the experiences of people in there when they've either started a business or gone up the ranks as a leader. And to me it's like listening to the best box set you can imagine. And I'm very excited about the journeys that people take and helping them along their way.

Toby Mildon: Brilliant. Thanks Kate. So yeah, I mentioned at the top of the show that I first came across you through your TikTok videos and Linda the bad manager. So before I go onto my next question, let's just hear what Linda has to say.

Linda: Hello. I'm delighted to be announcing our new company values today. So I'm just gonna run through them and then I'll take some questions from the floor. So the five values that we're announcing today are the following; uniqueness, excellence, courage, stewardship, and resourcefulness. I'm sure you'll join me in congratulating the values committee team for a really, really great set of values that we will all live and breathe in our everyday lives as we work for this company. Any questions? What do they mean? Yeah, it's a good question. Uniqueness. Well, we're all various different shades of unique, aren't we? Although some are more unique than others. I'd say excellence not just doing our best, but being the best. Courage to make brave decisions, but not taking too many risks. Don't wanna be stupid. And stewardship, yes, supervising how we manage our natural resources, although we don't have any environmental policy plans to get to Net Zero or doing anything that vaguely contributes towards sustainability, but it's a good buzzword to have, I think. Yeah, and resourcefulness because we do hard things, but we don't moan about them, do we? Alice? No. Anyway, let's get on with our working lives and just remember to be unique. Excellent, courageous, stewardy and resourceful. Wonderful. Congratulations once again to the values team. Very good.

Toby Mildon: So Kate, that was Linda, the bad manager. I love watching her videos every morning when I wake up. My habit is to watch some TikTok videos while I'm having a cup of tea in the morning. And I have a little catch up with Linda. So with your alter ego, Linda, who we've just heard in your TikTok videos, you've highlighted how leaders don't always walk the talk with their values. So how do you think leaders can go beyond words and truly embody their values? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: I think it's a tricky one because I think a lot of people don't really know what their values are. And when I'm coaching people, I sometimes ask them, do you have any, core principles, firmly held beliefs what I'd call values? And they are, oh, yes, yes, I'd certainly do. And then I say, well, would you mind sharing them I mean, if you don't feel comfortable too, but I'd love to know what they are. And then they struggle to actually put them into words. So that's, I do an exercise about finding your values in my coaching programs, but in terms of values of an organization, I think a lot of organizations have sort of play lip service to this idea of having values or a vision or a mission, and then it's maybe put up on as a poster in the staff room or on the intranet or something, and maybe even, publicly announced as a part of their marketing, but actually, do they live it? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: And that's one of the things that I find ironic really about values, because they're supposed to not just be what you think you should be doing or what people expect you to do, but actually what you do when nobody's looking. And so there are so many bits of corporate policy like people's environmental policy, their EDI policy, are they actually doing what they say they're doing? And they might have written it down, but do they really properly believe it and use it and actually live it? And it's a bit like saying, why I'm interested in EDI particularly is that there's a need, sadly to have a policy. And actually, if it was ingrained in us and just part of our everyday lives, then we wouldn't need one.

Kate Waterfall Hill: It's a bit like saying, oh, we've got an honesty policy, we'd like people to tell the truth in this organization. Well let's hope everybody does tell the truth. I think it's sometimes a shame that we feel that we need to have a policy. It should be actually just our lived experience, that means that we're good, decent people, but sadly not. It doesn't always show up that way. And often leaders, but as I say, pay lip service to these ideas of values and then don't actually live them in everyday life. And partly that's to do with the choices of values that, in the skit that you played, I talk about stewardship as being a value. And then when Linda gets put under pressure to explain, how do we turn up, how do we live that? She says, just be a bit stewardy. It's 'cause she doesn't really know what it means. So we've gotta make sure that if you're gonna have some values that you properly live by them and they mean something to the people in their everyday lives.

Toby Mildon: But I think also the values need to be really easy to understand. So I've worked with one client and their values is the acronym of pride. And everyone in the organization understands what they are because it's simple and easy to understand. And when I was working at the BBC, I couldn't remember all of the values, but I remembered one of our values was that we are one BBC. Great things happen when we work together. And for me, that was around the importance of collaboration. But I used to link it back to diversity and inclusion because you can only work well together if you work in an inclusive way. But there was a funny story, I think we talked about this as we were planning this episode. I went to go and do some diversity and inclusion training for a big international company and as I arrived at their big office their values were listed behind the reception desk and diversity and inclusion was listed at the top of their values list.

Toby Mildon: And I thought, oh, this is brilliant. We're off to a great start. I'm clearly going into an organization that values divest and inclusion. 'Cause After all, that was what I was there to talk about. And then as I started the training, all of the attendees were sat there with really closed body language. They were looking down at the floor, they looked miserable. They had their arms closed. Some of them were even just playing around on their laptop or computer. And I just thought this is odds. They're completely not engaged. And I had to stop the training and I had to ask them like, what's going on here? Why the long faces? And they just came back to me and they said, well, we just don't see the point of this training. Like, nobody gives a crap about diversity and inclusion here. This senior leadership team don't role model it. They don't walk the talk. And I was like, that's really odd because when I went into reception earlier, it says that diversity and inclusion is one of your values. It's right at the top of the list. So it just goes to show that you can have it written down somewhere, but you need to walk the talk, don't you? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: Yeah, definitely. It needs to be root and branched throughout the organization, but particularly as you say, modeled by the leaders at the top and being sort of very intentional about being, inclusive and in everything they do. So whether it's a passing conversation or a formal meeting, leaders need to show that right balance of empathy and authority that great leaders have, but also this humility to acknowledge that they don't necessarily need to have all the answers that they can hold space for others and listen actively, and I mean, listening to understand rather than listening to reply, not just coming back with your own anecdote in response to somebody else's, but being really intentional about how you show up and how you give space to absolutely everybody. And as you alluded to earlier, it's partly to do with my particular passion for coaching and how that enables people once they sort of get the idea of coaching that they active listening, holding space, asking open questions and being curious can actually lead to a whole raft of benefits. Not just DEI actually.

Toby Mildon: Yeah, I really like what you're saying about as a leader, listening to understand rather than to reply. 'Cause For me that's around empathy. And we know that empathy is such a crucial inclusive leadership behavior. So we work with the team of occupational psychologists over at Talogy, and they've created a framework of inclusive leadership. So six behaviors, and yeah, empathy is one of those behaviors. It's about taking the time to understand where somebody's coming from. As you say, I really like how you mention the importance of leaders acting as leaders, managers, and coaches. I like that distinction between those kind of three facets. Could you just unpack this concept for us and share how it applies to leading inclusively? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: Sure. Yeah. So to my mind, everybody, whether you're called a leader entitled, or whether you just a sort of person who wants to affect positive change and influence outcomes, which I'm hoping as everybody, whether you are called a leader or not, you have these three personas and they're, I would encourage people to use these concurrently. They're not separate ways of working that you do at different occasions, but in one conversation you might have your leader hat on or your manager hat on, or your coach hat on. And what I mean by that is the leader is the person or the part of you that's explaining the vision, the why, the purpose, the common goal, the shared endeavor that you are all in this together and why you're doing this. So when you are, even if it's something as simple as delegating a task to somebody or working in a team to get some work done, hopefully in a collaborative manner, that the leader should be setting out that vision, that why.

Kate Waterfall Hill: And then the manager part of you, and as I say, it's the same person, just a nuanced change is the manager and the manager is setting out the what. So the details of the deliverables, the expectations, the outcomes, maybe the milestones and probably things like resources, budgets, timelines, that sort of thing. So the manager's much more about the detail. So the leader with the why, the manager with the what. And then the important bit, the sort of secret source to my mind anyway, is the coach element, where importantly the manager doesn't set out the exact how you do something, but the coach enables the how. So the coach part of you is saying, having said this is the vision, this is the why, the purpose having set out the expectations and the deliverables. Then the coach part of you says, and how do you think you might do that? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: What do you think you might do next? What's your first, next step? What do you need from me? What resources are you going to require? What strengths are you gonna call on? What obstacles can you see? What risks might there be? So these open questions are the best part of a coaching relationship where you're holding space for somebody else, helping them explore what the options might be. And by doing that, you are encouraging, you're giving people that ability to feel like they're... Or not feel like, but actually have their voices heard. And therefore you are, you are behaving in a much more inclusive way than if you are the sort of person that just says, this is the job, do it this way, do it by then. So it's less about command and control and more about align and enable. And that's, in its very nature, is a really good way of leading regardless of the team you are working with. But it's particularly good if you are working with people from diverse backgrounds who might process things differently, might have a different way of being attentive to the requests that you are making, you are making really sure that everybody's on the same page because you are holding space and listening. So yeah. So that's why, then the what and then the how of being a great leader.

Toby Mildon: I love that. It reminds me of Simon Sinek start with why, which is something that I talk a lot about with my clients saying, well, I like what Simon says. He says people don't buy what you do. They buy why you do it. Or I've kind of tweaked it slightly. People don't buy into what you do. They buy into why you do it. And when I sit down with senior leaders, I get them to think about the why for diversity and inclusion. Why we have to go on this journey in the first place. Now you've just published a book. Could you just let us know about what the book is and give us a brief overview? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: Sure. So it's called How to Lead, and I wanted it really to be a guidebook, an everyday guidebook for all sorts of leaders and managers, because I felt that sometimes the leadership books that I read that I really love, and I love Simon Sinek, and I've got his books here and I'm looking over to the side as well as Brene Brown and other great speakers on the subjects of leadership. But often their books are quite concept led. They're quite sort of encouraging us to think of one big concept around leadership. And I wanted my book to be a little bit more of a, you are a coach in your pocket, so that you are thinking, oh my goodness, I've got to speak to so and so tomorrow about their under performance or giving them some feedback that's a little bit tricky. Or I want to inspire my team a little bit better. I know I need, I'll just look in the book and see that chapter. So there's a section on managing others, which is all about things like inspiring, motivating, coaching, delegating, managing under performance, managing conflict. And then there's the next section, which is all about managing yourself. So being a bit more self-aware, being able to self-regulate, being able to manage your time well manage meetings well and that sort of thing. So I'm hoping that it's a live book that you don't just read it once and you never see it again, but it actually, you have it sitting on your desk and you refer to it every day. That's the idea.

Toby Mildon: I do like how like super practical it is. And like you say, like a handbook that you can dip into and out as and when you need that support. And in your book you discuss the idea of being an intentional leader. What advice do you have for leaders who want to show up more mindfully, particularly in how they run meetings and engage with their team members? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: I think so much of leadership is embroiled with being busy. People have this sort of badge of honor that they're frantic all the time, that they have a, I've got 5,000 emails in my inbox and I've got meetings back to back. And it's almost an idea of how successful you are is how busy you are. And I'd sort of want to try and encourage people to rewrite that and say, who decided on that rule book? That being a high achiever means you have to kiss your life goodbye. Actually being a high achiever, could be actually being successful about managing your work life balance well and having a life and enjoying it. So the way to do that is to be intentional about it. If you just scoot through life screeching into your working day, and then, getting to the end of it and thinking, oh, thank goodness for that, actually you are never gonna make any difference. So actually being intentional is about thinking, what do I want? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: How do I want to show up? How do I want to engage with other people? How do I want to influence positive change? And knowing that, and being aware of that takes some time. So even if it's just 10 minutes at the beginning of every day to sit down and say, what do I want to get outta today? What are the big three things that I need to get done? And everything else is just extra, and that's super. But try to focus on the three things that are important, not necessarily the three things that are urgent. I'm sure the Eisenhower matrix of deciding what's worth doing. Is it urgent and important. So many people concentrate on the urgent and it's not necessarily important. So either delegate that or defer it and look at what's really, really important.

Kate Waterfall Hill: And the way to do that is by being intentional. And being intentional also means that you think about, okay, I've got a meeting coming up. What are the three things that I need to get out of that? What are the end results? What do the people in the meeting know already? What do I want them to know? What do I want them to think, feel, say, and do by the end of the meeting what the actions that need to come out of it. And having that intentionality only takes a couple of minutes, but so often we just, as I say, screech into a meeting and go, right, okay, yeah, what are we here for? Haven't read the pack before the meeting, don't have an agenda, dunno why we're there. So why did we say yes to the meeting in the first place? 

Toby Mildon: Yeah, I agree. I really like it because I mentioned the Talogy and their inclusive leadership framework that I work with. And one thing that they talk about is they kind of draw the distinction between mindful and survival leadership. And so when you're in mindful mode, I mean, you're just a much better leader to work with because when you're in survival mode, that's when you, I suppose you just, your emotions are all over the place. You become really reactive. There's a lot of fear or anger. When I work with senior leaders, I like to talk to them about the drama triangle. And so if you're in that kind of fight or flight or survival mode, then you're operating out of the drama triangle where you basically play the role of a hero, a villain, or a victim. So you feel like you have to rush to people's rescue or everyone's out to get you. And that's just not a great place to be. But the flip side to the drama triangle is the empowerment triangle, and that's where you're more of a coach, a creator or a challenger. And I think that does speak to certainly the leadership qualities that you talk about. And then certainly not the leadership qualities I've seen Linda exhibit in the TikTok videos, if I'm honest.

Kate Waterfall Hill: Yeah. I don't think Linda knows the meaning of the word mindful.

Toby Mildon: She's all about the drama.

Kate Waterfall Hill: She's all about the drama. Absolutely.

Toby Mildon: So what does inclusive growth mean for you, and how do you think this connects to the work that you do around leadership? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: Well, as I touched on before, it sort of almost makes me upset to think that we have to talk about this, that it should be automatic, that we shouldn't... Why would anybody be excluded for any reason? And actually, the best leaders, as I said earlier, have that balance of empathy and authority. They know what they're trying to achieve and they give you the idea of the vision, but then they spend time listening and being intentional and being curious. And this is actually a much more sustainable way of being for a leader than trying to be the person that has all the answers. Because if you go into a meeting having... When say there's some crisis and the leader of old would go in and say, right, I've identified the issue and here's my solution, go away and do it people. And everyone scurries often and does what they're told, but actually a much more inclusive way of working and also a more creative way of working and also a better solution, better outcome way of working is to say, what did everyone see here? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: What did this mean to you? What happened? What was your experience and what have we learned? What could we try next time? Where does the process need to change? It's less about who went wrong, who's to blame, and more about what went wrong and what did we learn? So yeah, as I said before, it sort of seems almost a shame that we have to have policies that tell us how to do this. It should be leaders adopting this sort of coaching style of management, not positioning themselves as the source of all solutions asking thoughtful questions, helping their team members discover their own answers and therefore coming to the right outcome, the right solution, and as I said, this is much more sustainable because then you are enabling other people to come up with the solutions, which means it doesn't have to ball beyond your shoulders and you are not the bottleneck.

Toby Mildon: Yeah, that's really cool. Out of interest, if I was to ask Linda, your alter ego, what inclusive growth means to her, what would she say? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: Oh, she'd say it was about ticking a box.

Toby Mildon: Yeah.

Kate Waterfall Hill: She'd say, well HR, Rachel from HR told me I had to have this person in my team 'cause it ticks a box, doesn't really suit me. And she recruits people on the basis that they look like her and sound like her and behave like her and eat biscuits in a certain way and wear shoes that she likes. So yeah, she's very, very closed to the idea of inclusivity. She doesn't get it at all.

Toby Mildon: Let's not invite her onto the podcast.

Kate Waterfall Hill: No. I think not.

Toby Mildon: Finally, if the person listening to us right now wants to further up on your work, perhaps they wanna read your book, learn more about what you've got to offer, I know you've got lots of free resources as well that help people out. What should they do? 

Kate Waterfall Hill: Best bet is to go to my website, waterfallhill.co.uk and you can find everything you need there.

Toby Mildon: Brilliant. Well, Kate, thanks ever so much for joining me today. It's been lovely to catch up with you. It's not often I'm starstruck. So I'm gonna continue enjoying your TikTok videos with you and Linda's. But thanks ever so much for joining me. It's been great to catch up with you.

Kate Waterfall Hill: You're very, very welcome indeed. And Linda would say the pleasure has been all yours.

Toby Mildon: Excellent. And thank you for tuning into this episode with Kate and myself. Hopefully you've taken away some really interesting and useful advice about being a good inclusive leader. So if there's anything that Kate can do to help you on your leadership journey, then please do reach out to her through her website. And if there's anything that my team and I can do to help you with Diversity Inclusion in your organization, then feel free to reach out to us on our website. Until next time, I look forward to seeing on the next episode of the podcast, which will be coming up very soon. Take care. Bye-Bye.

Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Inclusive Growth Show. For further information and resources from Toby and his team, head on over to our website @mildon.co.uk.