Driving Diversity and Inclusion in the Nuclear Industry with Monica Mwanje

How can we build inclusive cultures in industries that traditionally lack diversity?

In this episode of The Inclusive Growth Podcast, Toby Mildon is joined by Monica Mwanje, a consultant making waves in the nuclear industry. With a career rooted in chemical engineering, Monica shares her inspiring journey from graduate engineer to a leader in equity, diversity, and inclusion (EDI) within the nuclear sector.

The conversation dives into Monica’s experiences in a predominantly male industry, the importance of intentional inclusivity, and actionable strategies for organisations striving to foster more equitable work environments. Monica highlights the significance of her annual EDI-focused conference and the groundbreaking research she’s conducted on diversity within the nuclear workforce.

Key Takeaways:

• How Monica transitioned from engineering to EDI leadership.
• The role of inclusive recruitment in addressing talent shortages.
• Insights from Monica’s research on diversity in the nuclear industry.
• Practical steps for embedding EDI into business strategies.
• The impact of creating intentional spaces for underrepresented groups.

Whether you’re in the nuclear sector or another industry, this episode is packed with transferable insights for creating inclusive growth.

Guest Highlights:
Monica Mwanje is a consultant and advocate for EDI in the nuclear sector. She runs an annual diversity conference and conducts research to shape more inclusive workplaces.

If you're enjoying this episode and looking to boost equity, inclusion, and diversity in your organisation, my team and I are here to help. Our team specialises in crafting data-driven strategies, developing inclusive leaders, designing fair recruitment processes, and enhancing disability confidence. With a blend of professional expertise and lived experience, we're ready to support you on your journey. Reach out to us through our website. 

If you want to build a more inclusive workplace that you can be proud of please visit our website to learn more.

Chapters

• 0:01 Diversity and Inclusion in Nuclear Industry
• 11:30 Creating Inclusive Growth in Nuclear
• 18:28 Enhancing Diversity in Nuclear Industry
• 23:44 Empowering Inclusive Organizational Growth

Transcript

Speaker 1: Welcome to the Inclusive Growth Show with Toby Mildon, future proofing your business by creating a diverse workplace.

Toby Mildon: Hey there. Thank you ever so much for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast. I'm Toby Mildon, and today I'm joined by Monica Mwanje. And Monica and I live quite close to each other. So I live in Manchester, Monica lives and works over in Liverpool, but we actually met in Manchester this year because Monica is a consultant within the nuclear industry and she organizes a conference about diversity and inclusion within the nuclear sector. And I went along to her conference, which was amazing by the way. So I would recommend you signing up to her next conference. And this is really a catch up after the conference just to understand a bit more about Monica's background, the work that she does within the nuclear industry and everything diversity and inclusion within nuclear sector. So Monica, it's lovely to see you. Thanks for joining me.

Monica Mwanje: Oh, thanks for inviting me.

Toby Mildon: I mean, that was just a really brief overview of who you are, but can you just tell us a bit more about the work you do as a consultant within the nuclear sector? 

Monica Mwanje: Yeah. Not a problem. So, I guess to frame it might be useful if I just share a bit of how I ended up in nuclear as well.

Toby Mildon: Yes, please.

Monica Mwanje: So, I ended up in the nuclear industry by chance because of a conversation at a careers fair that I wasn't going to go to until my friend said they would go with me. And then I ended up applying for a graduate job and that was my entry point into nuclear. So I actually studied chemical engineering at university and entered nuclear as a graduate chemical engineer. And it was sort of through that role, that was my first take... Let me start again. So I entered the nuclear industry as a graduate chemical engineer and I worked up at first Sellafield site in West Cumbria. And through all of that and through that role, that was sort of my first taste of the nuclear industry as a brand new graduate, early 20s, getting to know sort of a new area, a new role leaving the whole university bubble that I had been in.

Monica Mwanje: And from that role working sort of at Sellafield working for that owner operator company. I also got touches working with different suppliers and different supply chain organizations and that led me into working in engineering consultancy. So, I left that graduate job after a couple of years, moved out and worked for a range of different engineering consultancies. And it was then during that, that's when I got more exposure to business development roles, organizational development roles, which led me into the path as to the kind of work that I do today. So, today how I work with organizations is I help them try and win new contracts, new business, but what I noticed falls into that sometimes is trying to understand the people side of it and how to get the best out of your teams, but also how can you work more inclusively. So, I get asked to consult on EDI projects, so Equity, Diversity, Inclusion or Equality, Diversity and Inclusion, depending on which acronym you prefer to use. And I consult on those matters and work with organizations so they can sort of build it into their strategies, build it into their approach, and build it into the different things that they'd like to do.

Toby Mildon: So you went to Uni, you studied engineering and you started off working on the engineering side of the industry and nuclear. I mean, what in particular attracted you to more of the people side of the industry? 

Monica Mwanje: So being really candid, I'd say it was probably just reflection on my own career. So, sort of over the years I've worked in lots of different teams. So, in the first team I joined as a graduate, I was one of the youngest in the team. Also me in this environment where there was people who were much, much older than me, we were all from completely different backgrounds and it was almost this expectation that we'd find a way to make it work without maybe there being any real support around how you make some of those relationships and dynamics work. So, I think from my own personal experiences of being in that microenvironment, but within a macro environment of joining an industry that's very male dominated, always stood out in terms of my race and ethnicity, because there's not many black people that work within the nuclear industry as well.

Monica Mwanje: So, you kind of have your team micro environment, you have this micro environment of this industry you're working in. There's also the messaging around women in STEM, getting girls into engineering, and talking about all of these things as well. And me just thinking about, "Okay. Well, I've made it into an industry like this, despite the whole mix of messages saying, well actually, almost like you shouldn't be here because there isn't necessarily that expectation," when you listen to some of the narratives. But I thought, "Well, I have made it in here," but what about others like me who've also made it in? Did we stay? Did we not stay? And then I think about friends from other marginalized groups that are currently underrepresented within an industry such as nuclear and thinking about, well, why are we here? How did we make it in? And was it by chance? Was it through active engagement? Why have we stayed? Have people progressed? 

Monica Mwanje: And then the other side as well, talking to friends as we start to move up that career ladder and really trying to understand, well, how do we work with different people? How do we lead in these situations? And then being asked, oh, we've got this recruitment issue or that issue, or we need to bring in more diversity into our teams. That thing where people say we need this, but they don't really articulate what that might mean, what it might look like and how it might work. And having those discussions around, well, how do we actually do that? And I was just really fascinated by it all. So, I did one of the things I know how to do best. So, research and read and talked to people and just did some learning as well as a mix of informal and formal qualifications, just to really understand how some of these different dynamics work in today's modern workplace. And that's what got me into it essentially. So a bit of a long answer to a very short question.

Toby Mildon: I can see how that panned out. And, I mean obviously you are a consultant and you do a lot of stuff around organizational development, you're not niching and specializing in EDI per se, although I know that you do a lot of work in EDI. I mean, have you noticed any pushback now that you're trying to change the nuclear industry from the top down? 

Monica Mwanje: I think it's just human nature to be honest. There's always a bit of reluctance or just a curiosity when people come along and maybe want to do something differently. And it isn't necessarily always that there are people who object, it's just maybe that unsure about what it means and what's going to come next. So the way I like to look at it is those who are curious, who will or are supportive, they just need to know a bit more about it. And my role is to make sure I'm clearly communicating with them what's actually going to happen, what's involved, what the desire is there and what the intention is behind all of it as well, because... And I've been doing a lot of reflection on this actually, particularly with all different things that have been in the recent news cycle and all different things going on and just thinking, well, sometimes it can be really easy to just be like, "We need EDI. EDI is a good thing," but not actually really break it down and explain to people what it is.

Monica Mwanje: But also we don't take the time to ask them, well, what does it mean to you? How do you feel about it? And understand how to better communicate with one another so that they realize at times we are talking about the same things. It's just, I might call it an apple, you might call it an orange, because I think things sometimes get lost in that communication translation that actually it's not zero sum. There are benefits for all of us. I'm not trying to do something that's gonna take something away from you but I think sometimes that comes across in a narrative through some of the approaches that sometimes get used and adopted.

Toby Mildon: I use that quite a lot when I'm talking about making somewhere accessible for disabled people. I say that, this isn't just for disabled people. You are making it accessible for everybody. And if we look at a lot of the innovation that has been designed for disabled people, the wider world is now benefiting from it. That not a lot of people know that the keyboard was invented for a blind Countess in Italy to write love letters to her lover. And now everybody uses the keyboard on their smartphone and their computer. And that's just an example of how an innovation for disabled person is now mainstream.

Monica Mwanje: And I think when you think about it, so when I think about things like pay audits and pay cap reporting, there's benefit for everybody in that because yes, it might in some organizations highlight that there might be some gaps for different demographics, but also if companies are interrogating their pay data, their promotion data, it can actually show who is or isn't accessing those opportunities. And it gives people information to then do something about it.

Toby Mildon: And I find that doing something like a pay or a gap audit helps with transparency anyway. And a lot of people in organizations complain about the lack of transparency around pay or promotions and that kind of thing. So, you are creating a culture of transparency, which helps develop trust within the business as well.

Monica Mwanje: Completely agree with that. Completely agree.

Toby Mildon: Can you give me some examples of how you've positively influenced nuclear organizations to create more inclusive cultures? 

Monica Mwanje: Oh, big question. But yeah. I can give some examples. So I think it's the fact that with the whole approach in inclusion and diversity in nuclear, we don't just have blogs and articles. We also want to be more practical and interactive than that. So, we do hold events. You mentioned you came along to the conference earlier this year and we have events like that, so people can get together, they can talk to each other and they can have those, I guess, are they called water cooler moments or whatever they are, even though we didn't have water coolers at a conference, but they can sort of gather around, chat to one another. And it's sometimes in those moments when you just meet someone new and you're sharing ideas around some of the things that you've done, and those are the things that can spark that change, because you've heard of something, someone staying in their company and you think, "Oh, actually that might really work well in ours. Or it could be something we could take back with us and adapt."

Monica Mwanje: So we like to give and provide that platform for connection as well. We also hold other events throughout the year, but mostly webinars. We invite different people along who they've got their expertise, whether it's in say, pay caps or it's disability or it's LGBTQ+, and we bring them along so that that way we're connecting the people who come to our webinars or our events with the people who really know the subject area, who know about whether it's particular enablers, particular barriers, and can provide those practical insights into actually making change a reality. And I guess bridging from the whole, we've got all the nice intentions, we wanna do nice things. It's okay, well, how do I actually do that? How do I make it happen? How do I understand what's relevant for me and my situation and my organization.

Toby Mildon: Absolutely. So I mean, particularly post-pandemic, we're noticing a lot more people are working remotely in flexible working. And actually, just because of technology, we can work with people on the other side of the world. It's very easy to have a very flexible remote workforce of specialists. What particular mediums or channels are you noticing that's working really well to reach people that are working remotely? 

Monica Mwanje: So, I would say I've found that we get good attendance at our conference. Whether it's people turning up physically in-person, even though you asked me about remote working, but sometimes people do like to get together in-person just to come along and experience the event and talk to each other. But we do also have it as a hybrid option as well, so people can join remotely, because we appreciate not everyone is able to travel and also enables people to join in from wherever they may be in the world. And we also find that we've got some good growth and good engagement on social media just in terms of the level of anonymity people can have. So they can go and look at something without necessarily having to speak to a person or email a person until they're ready maybe to take that next step. So I find that that's worked quite well as well. And we also have a newsletter. And again, that's another way in which we found can reach people where they are, and something we know we need to get better at is also asking people for that feedback around, okay, these are our communication methods at the moment, do they work for you? Do they not work for you? And sort of take that on board to improve our communication channels as well.

Toby Mildon: Yeah. That's really good. I was just thinking, there's some interesting statistics that you shared with me prior to this recording. Because you said that your industry is primarily made up of 79% men, 21% women, and your events have got more women attending and you're seeing a larger number of underrepresented groups, including disabled people and workers from the LGBT+ community attending as well. I mean, it just goes to show that actually people want these forums to meet together face to face, don't they? 

Monica Mwanje: I would say that. And I think being intentional about the space you create and letting people know they can show up as they are in the ways they wish to, I think that really helps as well. And I find it really so, so interesting because as you said, the figures from the nuclear workforce assessment show the industry is approximately 79% men, 21% women, yet you come to our event and you think it'd be, it's the opposite. That the opposite is true. And when you look at, well, you saw for yourself, you were there, and you look at the numbers and then seeing just who else was represented in the room compared to then the data we see at a higher level around the industry. It shows to me and it demonstrates to me that different communities are there in the nuclear industry, they work in the industry and like I said, they want to get together. They appreciate these forums if they know about it and they have access to it. So, it signals to me that more inclusive recruitment that reaches talent from wherever, from whichever part of society, can and does work because I've seen it with my own eyes that people will show up and have got the interest and the skills and capabilities to be part of it.

Toby Mildon: Yeah. Now the question that I ask everybody is, what does inclusive growth mean for you? 

Monica Mwanje: For me, and I think thinking about, linking it back to the nuclear industry, which at the moment is on a sort of big recruitment drive. So there's a target from the National Nuclear Skills Plan, which predicts that by 2030 an additional 40,000 jobs need to be filled. So that's a fairly significant number considering as we speak today, we're not far off entering 2025. So it's quite a number of people to find by 2030 in the next couple of years. So to me, that inclusive growth piece, that I guess, and sustainable growth piece as well means you need to actually reach everybody. You need to go far and wide and reach people who might have been unintentionally excluded, who may have thought, "Actually maybe this work isn't for me," or "I need to be a nuclear physicist to come work in the nuclear industry." To me, inclusive growth means actually we've got the job descriptions out there on the different platforms where people can actually understand how their skill sets, their experience can translate and contribute to the nuclear industry so that then that talent is accessed and it can come in and be a positive influence and contribute to the various range of projects that are happening.

Monica Mwanje: Because I think sometimes the nuclear industry isn't always as good as explaining the variety of things and the variety of skills that are open to so many different people, and particularly those who might be interested in Net zero and supporting those sorts of targets and understanding, well, what are the industries I can work in that are gonna help with carbon reduction and all those sorts of things. And nuclear is part of the government plans and government strategy for carbon reduction and is part of attaining the Net zero targets. But if you were to go and ask someone on the street, if they know that, and if they think their skillset potentially could come and work in the industry, I think it would be a very mixed response. So, for me, inclusive growth would be, being able to reach different people from different communities, different environments, who maybe are working in completely different industries at the moment, who can come along and realize that, actually, if they did want to contribute in the nuclear industry, particularly like I said, to Net zero related projects that they can do, that they realize they have the skills, the experience, and the talent to come be part of it as well.

Toby Mildon: Brilliant. I mean, I had a conversation once with the head of diversity and inclusion at HS2, and he said something along the similar lines that there's a skill shortage in the railway engineering industry. Over the next few years, a lot of people will be retiring out of the industry. We've got big projects like HS2 going on, and it was really important that we bought in new fresh talent. So, yeah. You're not alone in that regard. Now before we go, I know you have done some research and you've written a report on the back of your research around EDI and the nuclear sector. Could you just explain a bit about your research and where the person listening to us right now could get their hands on the copy of the report? 

Monica Mwanje: Yeah. I can do that. So, back towards the end of 2022, we started a data collection exercise because what we wanted to understand as a team was, what is the picture around Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion within nuclear? Specifically wanting to find out, well, who is in the industry? Because the data points outside of understanding sort of from age and binary gender. There's not very many really solid data points that can actually give that true picture of who's actually working in the industry at the moment. And there's a lot of anecdotal stuff, a lot of conversational stuff. So I thought, "Okay. Let's do a survey. Let's see what we can find out," and then we've got a body of evidence there and at least some data we've collected to give us a bit of an idea as to who's working in the industry. So that was one aspect of it. But also the other aspect was to start to understand, well, what are perceptions of Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion in the nuclear industry? How do people feel about it? What do they think about their opportunities for career progression? And are there any differences in terms of the different demographic groups as to how they feel about it? 

Monica Mwanje: So we went, did a survey, we analyzed the data, and we noticed that when you looked at the whole group numbers, it's quite a positive picture across a number of different factors and questions that we asked. But when you started to split out and say, well, what did just the men respond? What did just the women respond? What about our LGBTQ+ respondents? What about our minoritized ethnic group respondents? And we noticed there was some differences between some of the more minoritized groups versus the whole group number. And it just highlighted that sometimes that whole group number, it gives you a picture, but it may not give you a true picture depending on who you are and how you perceive the organization. So, it was pretty interesting to sort of dive into all of that and to see some of the different perceptions and data experiences people are having. So you asked me where people can get a hold of it. They can go to the website www.idnuclear.com, and they can find a copy of the report there.

Toby Mildon: Brilliant. Thank you. Well, Monica, thanks ever so much for joining me today. It's been lovely to catch up with you. And thanks for all of the hard work that you're doing to create a more inclusive culture within the nuclear industry. And I look forward to catching up with you soon.

Monica Mwanje: Thank you so much for inviting me along.

Toby Mildon: And thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Inclusive Growth podcast with Monica and myself. Hopefully, you've taken away some interesting nuggets of wisdom and information that you can apply to your own organization. Even if you don't work in the nuclear sector, there's a lot of transferable principles that we can translate between different sectors. But if you do work in the nuclear sector, then I highly recommend reaching out to Monica and her team, because they run a fantastic network. And it's always good to go along to their net events, conferences, download their reports, and things like that. So, do check them out as well. So, thanks for tuning in, and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode, which will be coming out very soon. Cheers. Take care. Bye-bye.

Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Inclusive Growth Show. For further information and resources from Toby and his team, head on over to our website at mildon.co.uk.