For Diversity and Inclusion in Recruitment: Hera We Are

Ever wondered how to turn your personal convictions into a thriving business? That's exactly what Emma and Nicola, two trailblazing recruitment consultants, have accomplished with the creation of Hera, a tech recruitment company that supports Founders to build diverse teams, empower women in technology, and amplify the voices of those from underrepresented and minority backgrounds.

On the Inclusive Growth Show, we sit down with these visionary leaders to hear the compelling story behind their entrepreneurial journey, and how their mission for diversity and inclusion has reshaped their approach to recruitment in the tech sector.

This episode peels back the layers of traditional recruitment, exposing the need for a more empathetic and representative process. Emma and Nicola reveal the secrets behind their success: a blend of genuine passion for diversity and a commitment to creating inclusive work environments that celebrate authenticity. We traverse the challenges they've faced, from balancing motherhood and career to confronting industry norms, and discuss how their approach has not only benefited their clients but also fueled their business growth.

Join us as we uncover the future of hiring, where diversity isn't just a buzzword but the cornerstone of a successful and inclusive workplace. Our guests highlight how they've implemented strategies that extend beyond the hiring phase, ensuring retention and satisfaction for a diverse workforce as well as anecdotes of the powerful impact their work has had on both candidates and companies. 

If you're enjoying this episode and looking to boost equity, inclusion, and diversity in your organisation, my team and I are here to help. Our team specialises in crafting data-driven strategies, developing inclusive leaders, designing fair recruitment processes, and enhancing disability confidence. With a blend of professional expertise and lived experience, we're ready to support you on your journey. Reach out to us through our website. 

If you want to build a more inclusive workplace that you can be proud of please visit our website to learn more.

Chapters

• 0:01 Promoting Diversity in Recruitment Industry
• 7:23 Reimagining Recruitment With Diversity and Inclusion
• 16:28 Diversity and Inclusion in Recruitment
• 28:34 Creating Inclusive Work Environments

Transcript

Speaker 1: Welcome to the Inclusive Growth Show with Toby Mildon, future-proofing your business by creating a diverse workplace.

Toby Mildon: Hey there, thank you ever so much for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast. I am Toby Mildon and today I'm joined by Emma and Nicola. Now Emma and Nicola have both got extensive experience working in the recruitment industry but they have since decided to leave their employers and set up their own recruitment consultancy and they've got a real focus on diversity and inclusion so we're gonna be finding out why they're interested or why they've got a focus on inclusion and how it's helping their business grow and develop. So Emma and Nicola, it's lovely to see you, thanks for joining me.

Emma Storey: Thank you so much for having us and it's great to be here.

Toby Mildon: Emma if I could come to you first, could you just give a bit more of an introduction to yourself about who you are, what you do and your background? 

Emma Storey: Yeah. Sure, Nicola and I have got a ton of experience in the recruitment space. So I joined recruitment back in, I think, it was 2015, 2016 something like that and really enjoyed the job to be honest from day one, still love it and as a lot of people do kind of just fell into the world of recruitment. Didn't really know what it was before I started but, yeah, always really loved the job and just felt like I was quite good at it from day one and actually this is an area that I feel I can really help people and it was then and still is now a very sort of male-dominated industry which when I was younger and sort of pre-children and everything, didn't really affect me. But as the years went on, it felt very apparent kind of what it is like to be a female in a male-dominated environment, much like the tech industry but then more recently so I've got a 4-year-old son and so over the last sort of four or five years actually what it's like to be a working parent or a working mum in a male-dominated environment.

Emma Storey: I mean the company, I've worked for three different companies all in their own way have been great but of course there are challenges that comes with being the minority. And it got to the point where, about not that long ago, maybe like eight, nine months ago Nicola and I started to get our heads together and felt that actually there's loads that we can be doing to be helping women in the tech industry. Having our kind of understanding that we've got and I think from a recruitment perspective, you know, there's a real stereotype of a tech recruiter and it is usually male and it's usually someone very young as well kind of without children. And there's so many candidates out there that just kind of cannot relate to that sort of person and don't get the support and the requirement met, I guess, by that type of individual.

Emma Storey: Yeah. Nicola and I met at the last company that we worked at. Nicola's also got, Nicola's got about 13-14 years of experience, and so we felt that actually from two angles, so the working parent and working mums by setting up our own business we felt that that would give us the flexibility that we needed, that would give us the sustainability in terms of staying in recruitment for a long period of time and that being a positive thing for our families and for our children rather than it being this, you know, again, stereotype of the recruitment role that you have to start at 7:00 AM and you can't leave before 7:00 PM and if you're not doing that then, you know, are you really committed to the job? And actually we knew that that was crap and we could do a really good job in the hours that work for our family and the flexibility that works for our family.

Emma Storey: So yeah, we decided that actually we know we can do this, we're gonna back ourselves. But even more importantly than that we felt really passionate about supporting others who, yes, might be women or parents in tech but also just across that diversity and inclusion piece supporting lots of different minority groups and we wanted to do that at more, as more kind of the forefront of what we're doing rather than on the side. And when you're working in a kind of big corporate agency you definitely have to do it on the side. You know, the main the main priority for most of those businesses is to hit your KPIs, hit your targets, that kind of financial reward and to put bums on seats and that doesn't always mean doing the best thing for the candidate or the best thing for the client. And so we wanted to flip that on its head really and think actually if we just do what we love doing, helping people really understanding what our clients need, what our candidates need from us and doing that to the absolute best of our ability and almost slowing down the pace of what we were used to.

Emma Storey: And just servicing a smaller amount of clients and customers and candidates really really well, then the commercial element of it hopefully will look after itself without leading to so driven by the KPIs and so that's what we've done. We set up Hera in November last year, we've been really really clear with the mission and the branding and the sort of creating of a safe space for both candidates and clients. And yeah, it's really exciting, and so far it is panning out exactly as we intended it to. The demand definitely is there. People feel safe to talk to us and more so than they did, you know, we've been doing this job for a long time but people just didn't feel safe to be able to tell us, you know, maybe what their own sort of unique situation was and they couldn't really be their authentic selves because at the end of the day we were a recruiter we were here to get them a job. And since we've set up Hera we just noticed a huge difference in the way people are opening up to us and from both both sides of the spectrum of candidates and companies and asking for help and sharing their views or their concerns or their struggles and yeah it's been really nice to be able to support with that.

Toby Mildon: Brilliant. I mean that sounds absolutely amazing. Nicola if I come to you now, if you could just let us know a bit more about who you are, what your background is and what you do.

Nicola Morse: Yeah. Of course. So I have got as, Emma mentioned, kind of well over 10 years, probably closer to 13 years recruitment experience across kind of non-technical and most recently technical roles. And to be honest, my situation and my circumstances are really similar to Emma's and I think that's probably why we've got such a great synergy between the two of us. So I have got two children, I've got a 5-year-old daughter and an 18-month-old son. And as Emma mentioned kind of we've come from that agency background that sometimes they serve a brilliant purpose but for us we just really kind of wanted to be the change that we wanted to see I think specifically, you know, we know about the issues that we have with kind of women in technology across the board in terms of bringing women into the tech sector, retaining women in the technology sector and then even when they hit kind of, you know, things like the menopause it's keeping them, you know, within the sector for as long as possible.

Nicola Morse: And I think since having my daughter and being so heavily involved in the tech space that really kind of put the bit between my teeth, if you like, to be able to actually make the change that we wanted to see. And I think the diversity and inclusion piece quite often is this big beast that, you know, people don't feel comfortable to talk about, they don't know how to talk about it, they don't know what questions to ask, what policies to introduce and when we were working in kind of our previous employers there was definitely a time and a place for DE&I to be considered but it wasn't at the forefront. It's something that I've as Emma has mentioned kind of we both are hugely passionate about it for a long long time. So we just sort of took the leap really to, I know it sounds really cheesy but be that change that we wanted to see and just move the needle in the right direction and so Hera was founded and literally Hera we are.

[chuckle]

Toby Mildon: I like that. Hera was founded and Hera we are. I don't know if you just came up with that on the spot or whether you've spent hours working on that as part of your branding 'cause it's really good.

Nicola Morse: No, I have actually, I was [0:08:12.7] ____. [chuckle]

Toby Mildon: If I may, you've both mentioned a number of reasons why you left your previous recruitment employers. What was that moment where you got together and you were like, you know what? We have to do it. Now is the time to do it. What was that kind of pivotal moment for you? 

Nicola Morse: That's a really good question. I think it's, for me, it was certainly there's always gonna be something isn't there? I think to be honest for me it was just, you know, taking the risk and see what happens. I'm quite, as an individual probably quite risk averse and I've always been I think kind of followed that structure and I like routine and I like to know where I am and I think when Emma and I were talking it just seemed like too good an opportunity to pass us by in terms of how aligned we were with our values, how aligned we were in our kind of personal lives and the fact that we've got, you know, a brilliant relationship between the two of us I think it was just one of those things that we just thought actually it's kind of why not? You know? Opportunities don't come around like this, you know, all that frequently and I think if we wanted to be, and do what we kind of were passionate about it was just kind of jumping in two feet first to make the best of a great situation that we were in.

Toby Mildon: Yeah. And Emma how about you? When was that pivotal moment for you? When was that time where you were just like, sod it let's do it? 

Emma Storey: Yeah. I think for me it came a bit earlier probably because... So probably, sort of 18 months prior I was at a point where I potentially wanted to set up by myself and I hadn't met anyone like Nicola at that point who would be the obvious person to do it with. And so I knew that I had a lot to offer and that I had some great ideas but the logistics of actually doing it and kind of being brave enough and of course we were still kind of in COVID times at that point as well, so I just didn't feel ready, I think, was the case. And it just didn't feel 100% right. So I thought getting some different agency experience would be really good for me to either help me change direction slightly and go down a different route or just reaffirm to me that actually this was what I wanted to do. I've always been quite like entrepreneurial, if you like. I've always seen myself running my own business of some form and like playing with different ideas of what that would look like, but just, yeah, never enough to really press the button.

Emma Storey: And it was meeting Nicola, bringing our ideas together and realising like how aligned we were, which is obviously very rare to meet someone like that, not only aligned in our sort of periods in our life but the importance we place on the different aspects of the role, 'cause I think recruitment is like it is a bit of a minefield. You're juggling lots of different elements of the job and almost like slotting into different mindsets and different job roles multiple times a day and typically you would work very differently to the person that sits next to you and you wouldn't necessarily see things in the same way or place the same importance on the same things. And I think as much as Nicola and I have different skill sets and complement each other really well with the roles that we take on, the importance that we place on each thing and our values are like 100% aligned, so I think as soon as we realised that we thought it was, it was a no-brainer.

Toby Mildon: Excellent. So what is your vision for doing recruitment differently? 

Emma Storey: So I think for us, one of our kind of slogans or taglines, if you like, it's tech recruitment redefined by women. And I think it's just stripping away that stereotypical bums on seats approach that kind of is synonymous with recruitment and tech recruitment, it's really competitive. And as Emma said kind of the vision and values that we really want to create is, Emma's touched on it, you know, just now into it's creating that place of psychological safety where people from underrepresented minority groups no matter who they are whether they're those that have neurodivergent characteristics, whether they're working mums, whether they're working dads, whether they're people, you know, from Black and ethnic minority groups.

Emma Storey: It's creating that space where people feel comfortable to come to us and ask questions on anything DE&I related that they wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable asking when it comes to their recruitment practices. And we've always kind of said, you know, we're not the experts. I don't know whether there is such a thing as kind of a DE&I expert because it's just such a, you know, it's a period of kind of continuous growth continuous change. But it's just creating an environment where we can break down those barriers have those conversations how, you know, things like how can we make interview experiences more inclusive for everybody rather than just kind of a certain demographic of people. It's just giving people the opportunity to share our vision, I suppose, in terms of kind of moving the needle in the right direction to genuinely make a difference to kind of the industry that we're working in at the moment.

Toby Mildon: That's brilliant. And I mean, Emma, presumably you've got a shared vision 'cause obviously you're co-founders and co-owners of the business but is there anything else that's in your kind of future vision for your recruitment business? 

Emma Storey: Yeah. So I guess something we haven't touched upon is Hera Voice. So when we decided to set up Hera when we were really nailing down what we wanted the business to represent and how we wanted to be sort of seen and understood by the market, we thought that it would be sensible to separate a little bit the recruitment piece from the communities piece. So as well as, you know, we are recruiters that's, that's our bread and butter and that's how we can support you in terms of the core of what we do, we wanted to extend that community piece and like Nicola said we're not the experts but we want to definitely be the signposters. So we created Hera Voice which is our community where we will share knowledge, we will signpost to people that are the experts, we will share webinars or meetups or events, we'll also host our own. So we've just hosted our first event last week which was amazing.

Emma Storey: And yeah, we feel that that piece will complement really nicely and that, and to be honest, we speak to so many people and it's not always recruitment that they need in that moment but we want to be able to offer them something and we felt that Hera Voice was the way to do that, to allow people to form connections with topics that they want to talk about but they might not know who else to talk about them with. And so yeah, Hera Voice kind of runs alongside it and that will be where we give underrepresented or minority groups the opportunity to talk about the things that are gonna make the difference essentially.

Toby Mildon: Brilliant. Emma, I really liked your point earlier about how you're bringing diversity and inclusion into the foreground whereas other agencies they maybe their focus is on the commerciality and hitting targets and KPIs and diversity inclusion is often seen as this kind of thing on the side of the business or a bolt-on activity. So I think you're positioning yourselves well in terms of being able to kind of build strong relationships with clients that have got questions or concerns about diversity and inclusion. And I know that you have had some really interesting conversations with employers about diversity and inclusion in the past, but I mean what are some of the common concerns or questions that they're coming to you with? 

Emma Storey: So I think it's not necessarily kind of a common set, we were talking about this earlier, kind of not necessarily a common set of theme of questions but it's almost kind of looking at DE&I as I said earlier, just this massive beast where actually people just don't know what to do in any capacity. So I guess where we come in, Emma and I and our brand Hera, it's actually kind of asking people the questions and hiring managers the questions before they know the questions need to be asked, if that makes sense. So, you know, we might take, be taking a spec for example for, I don't know, a software engineer to come in and work in a tech business. So where we come in that's slightly different to other businesses is we genuinely kind of ask those questions, and not to be difficult at all, it's just to make sure that we're covering diversity and inclusion when it comes to the recruitment process about kind of what are they doing when it comes to their interview process, what are they doing when it comes to screening and we're using kind of completely blank and blind CVs.

Emma Storey: They might say, actually, do you know what? We're really lacking some female energy in the team, we'd love some more women in tech which is all brilliant but actually if we don't ask the question, okay, so when we are potentially bringing you some more females into the team, what are you doing to be able to retain them? It's all of those things that actually people might not have thought of because as I said, I think diversity is seen as kind of lots of policies and procedures and it's quite scary and it's quite taboo but actually all we do is just kind of break down those conversations. You know, just asking questions that people might not ordinarily ask to create an environment where actually it's kind of inbuilt it's not a, we're almost kind of making it not a thing, if makes sense, by just building this into day-to-day habits, day-to-day practices.

Emma Storey: When it comes to recruitment, it's using just the little bits of information that we're picking up as we go to be able to kind of introduce those to hiring managers that actually might not have thought about how the menopause might affect, you know, somebody coming into the technology industry as a career changer or it might be a hiring manager that's not thought about someone that might be autistic, for example, so might need noise cancelling headphones throughout an interview process or to be able to interview remotely. So it's all of those little things that we're trying to do, the smaller things that make a bigger impact for our hiring managers and for businesses when it comes to looking at diversity and inclusion as a whole.

Toby Mildon: And Nicola when you do ask those probing questions of hiring managers, what kind of reception are you receiving or what kind of response are you getting? 

Nicola Morse: Do you know what is, what's really refreshing? Is actually a really positive one and I think there are lots of businesses that we've had conversations with that are like, you know, we've got a lot of work to do but it's making sure that we are as I said, kind of we're those safe people for them to come to and we're getting some really good responses and actually it's as I said kind of those smaller things that they're thinking actually I could implement that within the space of five minutes or just by asking that extra question that's gonna really help us attract and retain the diverse talent that we're looking to bring into the business. So it's been super positive.

Nicola Morse: And I think that just goes to show that actually the more we're talking about diversity and inclusion especially in recruitment the more that knowledge is gonna spread and the more we're going to be able to kind of move the needle in the right direction to be able to, you know, say that in 10 years time we're just that little bit more diverse and a little bit more inclusive than we are today. And that's all we can ask for really, because I think Emma and I are very aware that everybody is a human and we have very much entered into kind of setting up our own business to be able to treat people as we would like to be treated. And when we kind of put that onto hiring managers because every hiring manager is a person and they'll be someone's mum, son, brother, sister and I think when you kind of put that back onto people just wanting to get out of bed and do the best they can with the circumstances that they're in I think by completely humanizing that we've had such a positive response. And it's really refreshing, and actually really really impressed to see that people are taking it on board so well and actually then implementing the smaller things that we're recommending for them to do.

Toby Mildon: That's brilliant. So one of the most common things that I hear from my clients when they work with recruiters is that my clients want to attract a diverse range of candidates, they want to have an inclusive culture within their organization. And then they go out to various recruitment agencies to help them find and attract that talent. And then they become really disappointed when the agencies deliver a non-diverse shortlist of candidates, even though it's under brief to the agency that they want to have a diverse set of candidates presented back to them on the shortlist. Why do you think some agencies are just failing to deliver diverse shortlists when we know that diversity is out there, and the client is specifically requesting it? 

Nicola Morse: And if there was a common theme from what we hear from clients, that would be it as well. We get new clients, new businesses coming to us saying, oh, thank goodness, I do work with some agencies and they're great, but it would be lovely to be presented with a shortlist that isn't just 10 White males. And that's fairly normal. We've obviously experienced that ourselves as well in the recruitment industry. And I think the key thing is because of speed and the fact that, you know, when you're working under somebody else's mission, which does tend to focus around the financials of it, then your main priority is to fill that job as quickly as you can. And, you know, it is much quicker and easier to find 10 White men, certainly in the tech industry than it is to go out and search and... It's not even just the search there and then. So it's not that you just take a brief from a client and then you go out and you look for the diverse talent. It's all day, every day that we're building relationships and connections with a diverse talent pool.

Nicola Morse: And people, you know, coming to us and us going to them and going to events and inviting people to events and everything that you're doing on a day-to-day basis is increasing our network of diverse talent. And therefore we can, when that job comes through where they say, this is what we're looking for, and we need a diverse talent pool, then, A, the likelihood is we've got more diverse talent because we've personally invested the time to go and find it already. But it also means that we can turn around to that client and say, that's absolutely fine. I hope you understand that that... I can't just present you with a shortlist tomorrow in order to get the right talent and to give you the diversity that you're looking for, it would take a little bit longer, whether that's a few days, whether it's a couple of weeks, but you know what we're doing, we'll keep you updated.

Nicola Morse: You can't do that in a bigger agency because you've got a set process and you are expected to make a certain amount of calls that day to deliver your shortlist the following day. And that's that. And so I think where we give ourselves the freedom and the time to do that search justice and really listen to what the clients are asking us for, that's where we're different. And we also track all the data as well and ask candidates to provide their own personal data around their diversity and their traits, so that we know that we are providing that. I haven't worked at a company that's done that before, so I don't think that's normal. But then we can look at our data and we look at it weekly, if not twice weekly, to see are we keeping on top of what we expect of ourselves to present people with diverse candidates, whether that is... Yeah, neurodivergent individuals, the ratios between male and female, different age groups, like literally everything.

Nicola Morse: And it's obviously entirely up to the candidates if they don't want to provide that information to them. But most people do, and they really understand why we're doing it. And it's completely confidential. It stays with Hera. But it does mean that we can hold ourselves accountable to not just going with speed and presenting them with a list that we think we can get placement from in the next few days, but actually the talent pool that they've asked for and providing those opportunities for all those candidates that we've spoken to and promised that we will do our very best to find them the right role for them. It comes down to that as well in lots of recruitment agencies but also lots of other businesses is that kind of diversity and diverse shortlists are still, unfortunately, seen as a nice-to-have whereas for us that's an absolute essential like a diverse shortlist for any role that we work is an essentials to have and absolutely not a nice-to-have.

Nicola Morse: And I think it's that connotation that's still there. So a lot of businesses that ask us for those shortlists or they might say, we really struggle to hire women. We don't know why, but we'll post our own adverts. We don't get many female applicants and we'll go to agencies and we don't get many females through from the agencies either. It then allows us to have that conversation with them. Okay. So why do we think that might be? Like, yes, we know there is a shortage. We know that the ratios of male and women in the tech industry are off, but there is loads of talent there, so why aren't we finding it for your company? And there are so many things that they can be doing that we can help them with, whether that's the, kind of what they're posting on LinkedIn or what does their careers page look like or what is their, yeah, but is their maternity package visible for people to see? 

Nicola Morse: And so many things that really don't take that much effort, but they just hadn't realised how important that is for women when they're applying for jobs. So there's little quick wins as well that we can do without even providing them with a shortlist to just help them in that attraction piece.

Toby Mildon: I really like how you're both providing that kind of consultative approach. You know, you're not just going out and finding people and producing a shortlist, but you're doing so with quality in mind and the understanding that that may take time. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, because I think those those kind of other recruitment agencies that are very kind of run of the mill. It's like you said, they have a process. You're expected to pick up the phone and make X number of phone calls a day and you've got a KPI to get a shortlist back the following day or something like that. And I think what the compromise is that you might lack quality of candidates in the shortlist or you're certainly lacking diversity in the shortlist as well, which is an issue. So what are you finding are some of the challenges that candidates are experiencing when it comes to disclosing what their needs are or what their requirements might be during the recruitment process? 

Nicola Morse: So I think as a whole from that, I think the main challenge that we're seeing is a bit of a theme, if you like, it's candidates not being able to be their authentic selves and I guess not being able to disclose any characteristics or their full characteristics or circumstances that make them them. So we have had so many conversations with, it might be mums who are going through an interview process and they actually don't disclose that they've got children, or it might be someone, as I've said, kind of that is neurodiverse and doesn't want to ask for reasonable adjustments in the interview process because it actually feels that they would put an employer off.

Nicola Morse: So when it comes to kind of pain points from candidates and the people that we're working with, it's that authentic self piece that we try and just make sure that we're encouraging people to have those conversations and knowledge share and say, actually, you know what? I have got two children and these are the reasonable adjustments that I'd need, or yes, I have got these and these are the reasonable adjustments that I'd need. So I think from a candidate perspective, it's really, again, it kind of loops back into that, say creating a safe environment. We want them to be able to tell us and disclose that information to us so that if they don't feel confident in saying to a hiring manager, we can perhaps address it in a slightly different way. And the more of those pain points we know, the more of those things that we can address and before it even needs to be addressed, if that makes sense.

Toby Mildon: Absolutely. And how are you managing to create that psychological safety for candidates for them to be able to disclose their needs and requirements to you so that you can bridge the gap between them and the employer? 

Nicola Morse: I think it's a combination of things. I think our branding does that. So we were really deliberate in the way that we branded ourselves and branded Hera to hopefully make it as clear as possible to people that what we're passionate about and what we want to help people with. So that naturally allows people to gravitate towards us. And a lot of the time we'll get messages on LinkedIn, which, you know, their opening line is, "Thank you so much for sharing that post yesterday. It was really refreshing to see. I haven't been diagnosed, but I also believe that I'm neurodiverse," and then, you know, that kind of opens up a bigger conversation.

Nicola Morse: So a lot of the time it's people just seeing what we're doing and then opening up. What we also do is provide candidates with documents and guides, and we've got like an interview support preparation document that we share with every candidate, even if they're not interviewing with us. But we've had a chat with them and they are on the job market. And one of the first lines on there is, "Do not be afraid to ask for any adjustments that you feel might benefit you going through an interview process." So that quite often sparks people to then have a conversation with us about that. And, you know, I saw in your document that you mentioned this, like this is something that I've struggled with in the past. Do you think it would be reasonable for me to ask for this adjustment or that adjustment? 

Nicola Morse: So we're just trying to be as blatant as we can, really. And again, when we're speaking with them and having these conversations, just asking the questions. And when we're booking interviews for them, asking the questions, and trying to make sure that the clients that we're working with are really open to that as well. And that's kind of our own sort of blocker is we won't work with companies that just aren't on the same page as us. And if they're completely non-inclusive and they're not even really aware of it or they don't really care about that, then we won't be working with them.

Nicola Morse: But as long as they're, you know, it doesn't mean that they're perfect, no one is, this is a journey, but as long as they are addressing the fact that there's room for improvement. We're not the best on this. We could do with a bit of help, but what we are trying to do and what we have done and kind of those conversations. So at least when we're introducing a candidate to a company, we know that they are aware of it and anything that we suggest or the candidate sort of opens up about, it's gonna be received in the right way. So that's, yeah, that's where we try and draw the line, really.

Toby Mildon: So it sounds like you want to work with organisations that have that willingness and they're open to learning and developing and growing, and like you say, they don't have to be perfect. I haven't yet met an organization that is perfect at diversity and inclusion. There's always room for improvement.

Nicola Morse: Absolutely. And some companies have actually said to us, oh no, we're actually, you know, we're great, we're sorted, we've really, you know, we've nailed D&I and we think, well, that's equally as much of a red flag as somebody that's not aware of...

Toby Mildon: That's a big red flag to me as well when I hear that kind of thing. Yeah.

Nicola Morse: Yeah. Absolutely.

Toby Mildon: So the penultimate question I ask everybody when they come on this show is, what does inclusive growth mean to you? 

Nicola Morse: Yeah, this is, again, really good question. And we've actually really loved kind of putting our heads together to kind of come up with an answer to this. We literally had a coffee this morning to theorize some of our thoughts. So we've said that for us as kind of co-founders of Hera, inclusive growth is about being on a continuous journey with no end goal, to create an inclusive environment for everyone to be able to be their most authentic selves in any situation and in any environment. So just removing the fact that actually kind of D&I has got this end goal and once you hit it, it's a tick and a gold star and a tick in the box. And it's actually just being really mindful that it's continuous and it's about making sure that everybody everywhere, regardless of their situation and who you are, has a place of belonging because of who they are and because of their all of their authentic characteristics and their traits.

Toby Mildon: Brilliant. I love it. And before we go, what would you like the person listening to us right now to do when they go back to their desk? 

Emma Storey: Yeah, so we are always open to a conversation. So whether you're a hiring manager where kind of something we've said might have resonated. I mean, in terms of who we work with, who we want to support. So we work with startups and scale ups is our kind of bread and butter. That's what we've been doing for a long time. So we're still very, very keen to work with smaller businesses, probably at the sort of earlier stage of their journey. We absolutely love supporting female founders. So any female founded business or female leaders who want to hear more about what we do, then please do reach out.

Emma Storey: We love supporting tech for good businesses and companies that are very mission-led and have social purpose. And for the more sort of corporate or larger sort of enterprise businesses that actually just really want to be continually improving their D&I, then we love to help those businesses as well. And yeah, I mean, reach out on LinkedIn, please do check out our website. There's tons of information on there around what we do, and ways to contact us. So obviously, our contact details are on there as well. And yeah, we can get a call in the diary.

Toby Mildon: Brilliant. And just for the avoidance of any doubt, what is your website address? 

Emma Storey: Yeah. So it's www.heraconsult.co.uk.

Toby Mildon: Brilliant. Excellent. Well, thanks Emma so much, both of you, for joining me today. It's been a fascinating conversation. And I just really like your kind of approach and your philosophy around inclusive recruitment and how you're actually consulting with and you're supporting employers because I do believe they need that kind of consultative support because diversity and inclusion is a scary topic for a lot of hiring managers in my experience. But also you're creating that kind of safe space for the candidates to be able to open up and tell you about what their circumstances might be, what support they might be to successfully get the role that they really want. So I think you're doing a great job at being inclusive play-makers, you know? Where you're kind of bringing all parties together and you're providing a real quality of service. It's something I really resonate with. And when I was searching for jobs in the past, I wish I stumbled across both of you because getting a job with a disability can be a nightmare at times. So I'm quite happy running my own business now. Unfortunately, I'm not in the job market, but if that does change, I will drop you a line.

Emma Storey: Amazing. Thank you.

Toby Mildon: Yeah, you're very welcome. Thank you for joining me. And thank you for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast with myself, Emma and Nicola. Hopefully, you enjoyed our conversation today. Hopefully, you took away some really good hints and tips about inclusive recruitment and how you can create more diverse shortlists and partner with the right agencies and things like that. If you do want to reach out to Emma or Nicola, please do contact them through their website and they will get back in touch with you and no doubt help you and support you along the way. So until next time, I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the podcast, which will be coming up very soon. Cheers. Take care.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Inclusive Growth Show. For further information and resources from Toby and his team, head on over to our website at mildon.co.uk.