Toby Mildon: Welcome to The Inclusive Growth Show with Toby Mildon, future proofing your business by creating a diverse workplace.
Toby Mildon: Hey there. Thanks ever so much for tuning into this episode of the Inclusive Growth Podcast. I am Toby Mildon, and today I'm joined by Lizzie Martin. And Lizzie Martin is a parental return to work coach, so we're gonna have a really fascinating conversation about how to support parents back into work when they start families. So Lizzie, it's lovely to meet you. Thanks for joining us.
Lizzie Martin: Thank you, Toby, so much for having me.
Toby Mildon: That's all right. So let's just dive into the first question. Can you just tell us a bit more about what you do as a parental return to work coach and how you actually arrived at doing this role?
Lizzie Martin: Yeah. Absolutely. So I'm currently director at Work Life Mother and I'm also a parental return to work coach. And what we do is we help companies to attract and keep hold of talent by strengthening parental transitions. So this is the period of time, this is the chapter in an employee's career life cycle where they are becoming a working parent, whether that is for the first or the subsequent time, and they're navigating all of the change that comes with taking an extended period of leave from work and then reintegrating back into the team with the added responsibilities of small children. And we do this by coaching the employees in their organisation through their parental transition. We do it through training leadership teams and then also consultancy where we have a look at the end to end process of what the experience is like for an employee in that organisation to shift from worker to parent and then come back to work as a working parent.
Toby Mildon: That's really good. When I worked at Deloitte, we provided a similar service to our working parents. So we provided coaching for people as they were approaching parental leave and we also supported line managers as well in preparing for a member of their team to go on parental leave. And then we provided coaching for new parents as they were returning to work after parental leave and supporting them as they, in their first few months of returning back to work. So I know it's really impactful for both parents and their line managers.
Lizzie Martin: And I absolutely think it's going to become a hygiene factor. I think at the moment there's a school of thought that it's a really sort of lovely benefit to have in an organisation, but it's fast becoming a hygiene factor where employees are looking at the value proposition that companies have, looking at what have they got for me, how easy is it gonna be for me to be able to integrate my responsibilities as a working parent? And they're starting to look beyond just a robust policy and looking at that cultural piece as well and looking at how they're going to be supported through these particular transitions. So it is always fantastic to hear about more and more organisations that are implementing these sorts of mechanisms to keep hold of their people.
Toby Mildon: Yeah. How do parents feel as they are beginning their families and they are becoming parents and having to navigate work and family life for the first time?
Lizzie Martin: Yeah, it's a big question that, because there isn't a simple answer, there isn't a one size fits all response to that question. I think it's important to loop back to the common characteristics that the new parents are that have in common. So that's, they are leaving their role, so they are leaving their job but not moving to a different organisation. So they're leaving their job going on a period of leave and then coming back and taking back over the reins. So there's that exit from their role for a significant chunk of time. And then there's the identity shift of becoming a working parent and having the additional responsibilities. And the common thread that connects a lot of these individuals is there's so much change, there's so much newness and there's so much uncertainty. And for most people, we don't like uncertainty. We are not really that comfortable with ambiguity.
Lizzie Martin: And that can then lead to loss of confidence. It can make it really challenging to make decisions about where you are prioritising things. So there's often a tension between what am I choosing here? Am I choosing to be a present parent? Am I choosing to invest in my career? Am I doing the right thing? So there can be a lot of overwhelming feelings that parents have because suddenly they're faced with what can feel like unfair choices that they have to make between being, as I said, being a present parent and having a rewarding, fulfilling progression based career. So managing the change and uncertainty is a common thread, feeling overwhelmed. There's also a really clear trend. A lot of people will talk about the correlation between confidence and going on parental leave. So when you are spending a lot of time away from your team, you are with a small child or a baby and you are sitting with your own thoughts day in, day out, it's a bit of a breeding ground for the low esteem and the inner critic to run havoc and to impact how you feel about your competence and your value that you bring to the organisation too.
Toby Mildon: So what do you think the impact would be if more employers or more organisations were doing a better job at supporting parents back to work?
Lizzie Martin: I think my focus is how can we make it easier to come back to work? So there are so many organisations that are already doing a really good job. So it is about how do we make it easier for new parents to come back to pick up where they left off and not to have to downshift their careers. So what we're seeing is lots of returners coming back and either settling for a role which isn't perhaps meeting with them at their performance level because they want to be able to successfully manage the work-life balance, or we're seeing them reduce their hours when they don't necessarily want to be shifting into part-time work. So I think that if we have got great flexible workplaces, we've got supportive employers and we've got confident returners, then we are going to see that those new parents are able to fully unlock their potential and they're not going to have to downshift any aspect of how they are approaching their career.
Toby Mildon: That's really cool. I think, again, when I was working at Deloitte, we definitely saw some real benefits in terms of I mean, all round. I think there was just a huge confidence of parents preparing for their parental leave and then when they were coming back after parental leave, being able to kind of get back into their role and feeling really confident about being able to balance their work responsibilities and their family responsibilities as well. And I think also the work that we were doing around supporting managers was really important because I think we had to dispel a lot of myths with managers, for example, around whether people could work flexibly or not. It was really important to support line managers as it was for parents returning to work.
Lizzie Martin: Yeah. And what I've learned whilst I've been doing this work, Toby, is that managers really want to be doing the right thing. This isn't an opportunity for us to create any kind of sort of them and us narrative. When I've worked with managers and I spent 10 years being a mid-level manager when I worked for John Lewis on Waitrose, they have got their team members, their employees best interests at the centre of the decisions that they're making. But if they don't know what good looks like or if they don't feel confident in the decisions that they're making because they're worried that they might get something wrong or they're nervous that they could end up in unemployment tribunal, then sometimes what happens is they take no action. So they feel as though the best thing to do is nothing. For example, if you've got somebody on your team who's on maternity leave and you are their manager and you are not sure about whether they want you to contact them or not, you're probably just not going to contact them because that feels like the safest option. So we need to be making sure that managers feel supported, that managers have got a safe place where they can go and ask questions without there being a negative repercussion for them. Or that if they do make a decision and perhaps it's not the right decision, maybe they found it difficult, who they're saying yes to when it comes to flexible working, that the wider organisation supports them with that.
Toby Mildon: That's really cool. So could you give me some examples of progress that's been made? Maybe some clients or organisations that you've managed to support?
Lizzie Martin: Yeah, absolutely. So without naming any particular organisations, what I would say is the progress that a lot of organisations are making the, for the sort of first foundation, the first thing that they're doing is they're really getting under the skin of what it is like to be a new or expectant parent in their workplace. So they are starting to gather data. So whether that's quantitative data where they're measuring figures like the retention of their working parents or whether they are going and listening to some of the stories and the real life experiences that their employees are having. So this is something that we help them to do. So we help enable focus groups, listening circles, feedback mechanisms so that they can really get a handle on what is it currently like, and that informs the strategies and the next steps that they can then take so that they can improve from their starting points.
Lizzie Martin: Particularly for smaller organisations that don't necessarily have loads of people taking parental leave, it's quite difficult to say that you're going to take an approach that looks at statistics if you haven't got a lot of that data. So it's having that curiosity in the first place and that a vulnerability in the first place to say, look, we know we're not doing the best we can be doing, but let me understand where the gaps are so that we can have a clear picture of what needs to change. And that's talking to the returners and the new parents as well as talking to the managers to understand what they need so that they can strengthen this particular transition point. Then it's about, okay, well, where do we need to be focusing our attention? So do we want to be doing something at a policy level?
Lizzie Martin: And more and more organisations are now equalising their parental leave, so they are giving mothers, fathers, those that are coming to parenthood through adoption, through surrogacy, the same amount of paid parental leave a way to therefore be present and to be involved in the upbringing of their child that is having a significant impact on how they keep hold of their people, how they attract people into their organisations or is it something more at a human level? So is it not so much about policy? Is it about putting a mechanism in place such as coaching for the returners, creating a working family's employee resource group, or maybe setting up something like a mentor matching or a buddy scheme internally into the organisation so that there is that place of belonging, there's that place of I know where I can go if I've got any questions that I need to be asking or just to feel seen and valued and to know that it is going to be possible for me to work in this organisation as a working parent and that the organisation sees the longer term benefits of making the workplace a more inclusive space.
Toby Mildon: That's really cool. So what advice do you have for line managers for supporting returning parents to work?
Lizzie Martin: So for managers supporting somebody, I can give you some concepts and I can obviously give you some really practical things. So maybe I should try and do both. So I think the first thing is to not put pressure on yourself that you need to have all the answers to all the questions. So as a manager, we're used to finding solutions and fixing problems. If you are working with somebody who is navigating something like parental leave and maybe you haven't experienced it yourself or maybe you have experienced it yourself, you don't need to have all of the answers. What that person wants from you is compassion and understanding that you are going to stand alongside them and support them with the challenges that they're facing. So be kind to yourself and allow yourself to be a leader that takes that compassionate approach and your role is to listen and to assure them that you are there to support them.
Lizzie Martin: So focus on building trust with them. Don't put pressure on yourself thinking that you need to have all the answers to all the questions because if you don't have all the answers and therefore you don't take action, you're probably not going to give those individuals the best support that they need. The second thing is don't make any assumptions that you have the answers, but don't make any assumptions that you know what it feels like. So I think often people will say, I really want to have a manager who's also a working parent because they'll get it, oh, my manager's a working mom, so she'll understand. And actually that's a very dangerous misconception. So just because somebody else has also entered into parenthood, it doesn't mean that they know what it's like to stand in your shoes. So really challenge the assumptions and the biases that you might be bringing into those interactions when you are working with somebody who's expecting a baby.
Toby Mildon: I really like that point because when we talk about inclusive leadership with our clients, the number one behavior that keeps coming up is empathy and basically taking the time to understand where somebody else, what their current situation is, what they're currently feeling, where they're coming from. Rather than, like you say, make assumptions about how they might be feeling or even just trying to become like the rescuer, 'cause I think as a manager sometimes, particularly when we're under a lot of stress and pressure, we might go into rescue mode where we feel like we have to kind of like salvage a situation or go to somebody's aid when actually the best thing you can do is create a safe space for people just to kind of breathe and do that exploration with them.
Lizzie Martin: Yeah, absolutely. And when you look at those dynamics of the drama triangle, which is where the victim rescuer persecutor comes into play, if you do find yourself slipping into the kind of rescue tendencies, the advice is to step into coach mode. So as you were saying there, it's, this isn't about trying to fix them or rescue them or save them, but how can you show them that you are going to collaborate with them to navigate whatever that gnarly tricky situation is? And I think that we talk about be empathetic, take a coaching approach, but that can feel really ambiguous for lots of people. How do I go to work tomorrow and be more empathetic? It's quite intangible. And if I was going to break it down into a couple of pieces of advice, the one thing that has been coming up for me recently is challenging yourself not to ask why questions.
Lizzie Martin: So often we're taught that asking a question that starts with why makes us sound curious as an individual. But if you ask somebody a question that starts with why, it can actually put them into threat modes, they can then become very defensive and might feel like they have to justify their decision making. So why do you want to come back earlier than you planned at the end of your maternity leave can sound a bit judgmental. Whereas if you say something like, what has led you to make that decision is much more collaborative. So I think it's really reflecting upon how much silence and space and how much listening are you doing as a compassionate, empathetic leader, but also what language are you using to frame your questions and is that enabling the person to open up when they're with you or is it actually closing them down?
Toby Mildon: Yeah. I'm really glad you mentioned the beginning with why because I learned that when I was doing my executive coach training, 'cause like you say, it can come across as quite judgmental sometimes. And also when you couple that with tonality of your voice. So if you would say, why do you want to come back to work early? Or why do you want to come back to work early? You get a very different meanings from the same question.
Lizzie Martin: It's amazing, isn't it? I think, isn't it something like only 12% of what you say is actually your choice of words and the rest is your non-verbal communication?
Toby Mildon: Absolutely. Yeah. The vast majority of how we communicate is through our non-verbal cues, which is really hard to do, particularly as we're going into a more online world with people working remotely. We often can't benefit from seeing those visual cues if the camera is turned off or out of focus or not in the frame of the camera. So it's really tricky.
Lizzie Martin: Yeah, absolutely. If you can take a coaching approach, that would be a topic that I would say for managers is how can you step into that place of using some coaching techniques, because that will help you develop the empathy as well.
Toby Mildon: Definitely. And if the person listening to us right now wants to learn more about what we're talking about here, it's called the Empowerment Triangle. So there's the Drama Triangle and then the Empowerment Triangle is the flip of that. So just Google Empowerment Triangle and you'll get some really interesting articles and illustrations online. The penultimate question that I ask everybody is what does inclusive growth mean to you?
Lizzie Martin: I love this question, Toby, because I thought actually it was gonna be quite straightforward to answer and the reality is it's not. I start on this for a while, [laughter] and the first thing that came to mind for me was that actually I think inclusive growth for lots of people is probably quite an uncomfortable thing to embrace. And for me it's about doing things differently. So if we are going to achieve inclusive growth, then we need to do things differently. We need to be taking a long term approach to how we choose to operate as individuals and workplaces. And in my world, inclusive growth is about every individual having the opportunity to progress and be a present parent. And this is a big shift away from the existing battle that many are faced with, which is I either progress or I get to be a present parent. So it's about putting and in the middle of those sentences rather than having an or.
Toby Mildon: Yeah. Brilliant. And how do you think individuals and businesses can grow if we put the and in there rather than the or?
Lizzie Martin: I think that they can grow more sustainably. I think that they will open their minds and eyes to a broader range of innovation and diverse thinking that will in turn improve lots of those bottom line targets that we're aiming for. But I just think it's going to be a more sustainable route to navigating the responsibilities of business growth with the human experience that is so integral to that.
Toby Mildon: Cool. Excellent. Now, if the person listening to us right now wants to reach out to you, learn more about what you do, perhaps they're even thinking about their policies and practices around supporting parents within the workplace, what should they do?
Lizzie Martin: So you can connect with me on LinkedIn, I'm over there as Lizzie Martin, PCC, or you can head on over to, I should have said, and you can head on over to my website [laughter] rather than, or Toby. And you can head over to our website, which is worklifemother.com.
Toby Mildon: Brilliant. Yeah. So yeah, if you want to connect with Lizzie, do both. Go to LinkedIn and go to her website. So Lizzie, thanks ever so much for joining me today. It's been lovely to catch up with you and it'll be great to keep in touch with you.
Lizzie Martin: Thank you so much, Tobi.
Toby Mildon: You're welcome. And thanks for tuning into this episode of The Inclusive Growth Podcast. Hopefully, we've given you some interesting insights, knowledge, tools that you can think about applying to your own organisation to support working parents within your business and create that inclusive growth. So thanks for tuning in and I look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the podcast, which will be coming out very soon. Until then, take good care of yourself. Bye.
Toby Mildon: Thank you for listening to The Inclusive Growth Show. For further information and resources from Toby and his team, head on over to our website at mildon.co.uk.
